love textmate, it's always lacked in CVS support, you add features that are the easiest to add like subversion or other weird libraries. But not the ONE thing that is a show stopper for almost everyone. Every office USES CVS? Why can't this be the #1 priority of textmate? Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support. I hate having to use BBedit, to browse CVS, or textwrangler, then switching back to textmate.
The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY. who agrees with me? we your customers want CVS support, and SFTP, FTP, and networked support, and not through some third party client. You want to make textmate the worlds best editor? Add in features that crappy clients like eclipse or zend developer environment have, that let you browse and commit to the CVS trunk, and roll back.
Anyone who wants, and thinks this is the most important feature of textmate (aside from being a text editor) please comment and show your support. I'm personally willing to donate an extra $500 for seemless CVS intergration, not that crappy bundle that's going around.
As a user interface designer, I could even help you design the sidebar for browsing CVS, subversion, and feature sets. But everyone is EDITING files online, it shouldn't be hard to intergrate, there are SO many free libraries for unix that you can use!!! especially for the sftp, and so forth, you don't have to re-invent the wheel.
Pleeeeeeease..
Best Regards your loyal customer,
court kizer
Why did you repost this rant?
On Jun 25, 2006, at 9:31 PM, Court K. wrote:
love textmate, it's always lacked in CVS support, you add features that are the easiest to add like subversion or other weird libraries. But not the ONE thing that is a show stopper for almost everyone. Every office USES CVS? Why can't this be the #1 priority of textmate? Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support. I hate having to use BBedit, to browse CVS, or textwrangler, then switching back to textmate.
The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY. who agrees with me? we your customers want CVS support, and SFTP, FTP, and networked support, and not through some third party client. You want to make textmate the worlds best editor? Add in features that crappy clients like eclipse or zend developer environment have, that let you browse and commit to the CVS trunk, and roll back.
Anyone who wants, and thinks this is the most important feature of textmate (aside from being a text editor) please comment and show your support. I'm personally willing to donate an extra $500 for seemless CVS intergration, not that crappy bundle that's going around.
As a user interface designer, I could even help you design the sidebar for browsing CVS, subversion, and feature sets. But everyone is EDITING files online, it shouldn't be hard to intergrate, there are SO many free libraries for unix that you can use!!! especially for the sftp, and so forth, you don't have to re- invent the wheel.
Pleeeeeeease..
Best Regards your loyal customer,
court kizer
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
One thought:
http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3291
-J
On 26 Jun 2006, at 2:31 am, Court K. wrote:
love textmate, it's always lacked in CVS support, you add features that are the easiest to add like subversion or other weird libraries. But not the ONE thing that is a show stopper for almost everyone. Every office USES CVS? Why can't this be the #1 priority of textmate? Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support. I hate having to use BBedit, to browse CVS, or textwrangler, then switching back to textmate.
The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY. who agrees with me? we your customers want CVS support, and SFTP, FTP, and networked support, and not through some third party client. You want to make textmate the worlds best editor? Add in features that crappy clients like eclipse or zend developer environment have, that let you browse and commit to the CVS trunk, and roll back.
Anyone who wants, and thinks this is the most important feature of textmate (aside from being a text editor) please comment and show your support. I'm personally willing to donate an extra $500 for seemless CVS intergration, not that crappy bundle that's going around.
As a user interface designer, I could even help you design the sidebar for browsing CVS, subversion, and feature sets. But everyone is EDITING files online, it shouldn't be hard to intergrate, there are SO many free libraries for unix that you can use!!! especially for the sftp, and so forth, you don't have to re- invent the wheel.
Pleeeeeeease..
Best Regards your loyal customer,
court kizer
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
Yes, thanks this still doesn't solve any problems. Rather than spending an hour posting on a blog about how you hate feature requests, why not just implement the really good ones?. Especially Really Good CVS, Subversion, SFTP, Editing over the networking stuff. There is not one single good CVS client for mac, eclipse, zend studio, all of them suck, yet textmate "is the missing editor for the 21st century", Well in the 21st century almost every file is edited online and checked into a versioning system. And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in... I guess we're just out of luck.
I'm irritated that the only comments have been, about the actual comment an not the feature I'm requesting, or others have requested. If textmate really isn't interested in becoming the missing editor for the 21st century, then I'm going to post, a $20,000 bounty for several x-code developers to make me a near duplicate of textmate with full cvs browser, subversion, browser, sftp, and network connectivity and give it for free.
You just can't build an editor these days, let alone one that's "for the 21st century" and not have support for networks.
On Jun 25, 2006, at 6:45 PM, Jonathan Barrett wrote:
One thought:
http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3291
-J
On 26 Jun 2006, at 2:31 am, Court K. wrote:
love textmate, it's always lacked in CVS support, you add features that are the easiest to add like subversion or other weird libraries. But not the ONE thing that is a show stopper for almost everyone. Every office USES CVS? Why can't this be the #1 priority of textmate? Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support. I hate having to use BBedit, to browse CVS, or textwrangler, then switching back to textmate.
The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY. who agrees with me? we your customers want CVS support, and SFTP, FTP, and networked support, and not through some third party client. You want to make textmate the worlds best editor? Add in features that crappy clients like eclipse or zend developer environment have, that let you browse and commit to the CVS trunk, and roll back.
Anyone who wants, and thinks this is the most important feature of textmate (aside from being a text editor) please comment and show your support. I'm personally willing to donate an extra $500 for seemless CVS intergration, not that crappy bundle that's going around.
As a user interface designer, I could even help you design the sidebar for browsing CVS, subversion, and feature sets. But everyone is EDITING files online, it shouldn't be hard to intergrate, there are SO many free libraries for unix that you can use!!! especially for the sftp, and so forth, you don't have to re- invent the wheel.
Pleeeeeeease..
Best Regards your loyal customer,
court kizer
_ For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On Jun 25, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, thanks this still doesn't solve any problems. Rather than spending an hour posting on a blog about how you hate feature requests, why not just implement the really good ones?. Especially Really Good CVS, Subversion, SFTP, Editing over the networking stuff. There is not one single good CVS client for mac, eclipse, zend studio, all of them suck, yet textmate "is the missing editor for the 21st century", Well in the 21st century almost every file is edited online and checked into a versioning system. And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in... I guess we're just out of luck.
Court, why did you send the same post again? Isn't this the second time you sent the same email? The first time you sent the request someone answered you quite directly saying that SFTP and FTP were both something the next major version would likely have as Alan has said they are on his list.
And as has been stated your opinion of important isn't necessarily everyone else's. Nor is it necessarily the opinion held by even "most" people.
The current subversion support is more than enough for my needs and obviously its more than enough for most of the other people using it or we would hear more complaints. And we don't. That blog post was actually posted by someone else (I believe the author of BBEdit). The person was just pointing out (by providing a link to someone else's blog post) that your way of going about requesting wasn't likely to elicit a positive response simply because everyone has their own ideas about what is important and you aren't necessarily tapped into those ideas nearly as well as you may think you are.
I'm irritated that the only comments have been, about the actual comment an not the feature I'm requesting, or others have requested. If textmate really isn't interested in becoming the missing editor for the 21st century, then I'm going to post, a $20,000 bounty for several x-code developers to make me a near duplicate of textmate with full cvs browser, subversion, browser, sftp, and network connectivity and give it for free.
If you have that much money more power to you. But I can tell you, most competent programmers are going to need heck of a lot more money than that to motivate them. Good luck with that.
Jamie
_______________________________________________________________________ Email: jamie@methnen.com Homepage: http://www.methnen.com
"And I always go to pieces. And I have it in my mind, that the sky is tall and heavy, when I could be brave." -Karen Peris (Brave)
"I want to find where the maid in the street is pouring her wine, I heard she takes you in and gives you the words you need said. If you'll be her brother, she'll kiss you like a sister. She'll even be your mother, for now." -Matt Slocum (Sister, Mother)
"And we are drowned." -Annie Dillard (Tickets For a Prayer Wheel) _______________________________________________________________________
Again, everyone is posting about me posting twice, I explained this, I resubscribed to the list with a different email address, and didn't realize the first message went through. It was a accident.
-Court
On Jun 25, 2006, at 11:24 PM, Methnen (AKA Jamie) wrote:
On Jun 25, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, thanks this still doesn't solve any problems. Rather than spending an hour posting on a blog about how you hate feature requests, why not just implement the really good ones?. Especially Really Good CVS, Subversion, SFTP, Editing over the networking stuff. There is not one single good CVS client for mac, eclipse, zend studio, all of them suck, yet textmate "is the missing editor for the 21st century", Well in the 21st century almost every file is edited online and checked into a versioning system. And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in... I guess we're just out of luck.
Court, why did you send the same post again? Isn't this the second time you sent the same email? The first time you sent the request someone answered you quite directly saying that SFTP and FTP were both something the next major version would likely have as Alan has said they are on his list.
And as has been stated your opinion of important isn't necessarily everyone else's. Nor is it necessarily the opinion held by even "most" people.
The current subversion support is more than enough for my needs and obviously its more than enough for most of the other people using it or we would hear more complaints. And we don't. That blog post was actually posted by someone else (I believe the author of BBEdit). The person was just pointing out (by providing a link to someone else's blog post) that your way of going about requesting wasn't likely to elicit a positive response simply because everyone has their own ideas about what is important and you aren't necessarily tapped into those ideas nearly as well as you may think you are.
I'm irritated that the only comments have been, about the actual comment an not the feature I'm requesting, or others have requested. If textmate really isn't interested in becoming the missing editor for the 21st century, then I'm going to post, a $20,000 bounty for several x-code developers to make me a near duplicate of textmate with full cvs browser, subversion, browser, sftp, and network connectivity and give it for free.
If you have that much money more power to you. But I can tell you, most competent programmers are going to need heck of a lot more money than that to motivate them. Good luck with that.
Jamie
_ Email: jamie@methnen.com Homepage: http://www.methnen.com
"And I always go to pieces. And I have it in my mind, that the sky is tall and heavy, when I could be brave." -Karen Peris (Brave)
"I want to find where the maid in the street is pouring her wine, I heard she takes you in and gives you the words you need said. If you'll be her brother, she'll kiss you like a sister. She'll even be your mother, for now." -Matt Slocum (Sister, Mother)
"And we are drowned." -Annie Dillard (Tickets For a Prayer Wheel) ______________________________________________________________________ _
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 22:42:26 -0700, Court K. wrote:
And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in...
"every single person"??? Well I use TextMate, I've paid for my licence and I don't want CVS support, built in or otherwise.
So maybe go back and read that blog post again. It's almost like it was written just for you.
Nick
Regardless, if CVS support was built into textmate, it would be an optional feature, and you wouldn't have to use it, or it could be a nicely bundled plugin with full browsing support. Not intrusive, and in your face.
-Court
On Jun 26, 2006, at 2:51 AM, Nicholas Orr wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 22:42:26 -0700, Court K. wrote:
And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in...
"every single person"??? Well I use TextMate, I've paid for my licence and I don't want CVS support, built in or otherwise.
So maybe go back and read that blog post again. It's almost like it was written just for you.
Nick
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On Jun 26, 2006, at 12:42 AM, Court K. wrote:
And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in... I guess we're just out of luck.
Woah there bud, speak for yourself all you want, but do not speak for me!
1. I like the bundle approach because we can make changes as needed with having to rely on Allan to do everything. 2. I believe Subversion is CVS++, so the only reason to still be using the latter is if you have to work with groups who haven't clued- in yet.
... and thus ...
3. TextMate's CVS support is working just fine for *this* user!
James Edward Gray II
I'm not a programmer, just using TextMate and Subversion to work on a couple of tiny web sites. So I may well be missing some things here.
Is this sort of a discussion about where a "text editor" ends and an IDE begins? That is, is it about to what extent should version or source control, or remote file transfer (etc.) be "built in" to a text editor? When does the product cease being purely a text editor? (Maybe TextMate has already crossed the line!)
I'm smoothly working on TextMate projects that are Working Copies checked out of a Subversion repository. From within TextMate I can, with a keystroke. commit a file or files back to the repository or issue numerous other SVN commands. If I knew enough about what I was seeing, I could modify the svn bundle if I wanted to. Here, access to svn is *very* close at hand. I don't see the benefit of expending energy to writing a "built-in" svn client when access to an *existing* client
When I want a visual svn client, I use svnX. For me, that works fine (and saves me the trouble of trying to memorize commands I rarely use).
As to the comments "almost every file is edited online" and "Editing over the network" ... this type of description has been used before and I don't get it. It's not possible (is it?) to edit or view a file unless it's accessible on the local filesystem. If I check out a working copy from a remote repository a *copy* is made locally. Any edits I do are done locally. When I commit my changes, those changes are *uploaded* back to the remote repository. This is not "Editing over the network."
If I have a sftp session open with Interarchy or Transmit, select a file in the list and choose "Edit With TextMate," a file opens in TextMate. But it is *not* the file that is on the server that has been opened (right?). Instead, it's a temporary file that the ftp client (silently) creates. When I edit and save, more magic happens and the local file is (again, silently) uploaded to the server and replaces the existing one. It *appears* that I am "editing online" but technically that's not what's happening.
Or am I all mixed up? ;)
eo
On Jun 25, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, thanks this still doesn't solve any problems. Rather than spending an hour posting on a blog about how you hate feature requests, why not just implement the really good ones?. Especially Really Good CVS, Subversion, SFTP, Editing over the networking stuff. There is not one single good CVS client for mac, eclipse, zend studio, all of them suck, yet textmate "is the missing editor for the 21st century", Well in the 21st century almost every file is edited online and checked into a versioning system. And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in... I guess we're just out of luck.
I'm irritated that the only comments have been, about the actual comment an not the feature I'm requesting, or others have requested. If textmate really isn't interested in becoming the missing editor for the 21st century, then I'm going to post, a $20,000 bounty for several x-code developers to make me a near duplicate of textmate with full cvs browser, subversion, browser, sftp, and network connectivity and give it for free.
You just can't build an editor these days, let alone one that's "for the 21st century" and not have support for networks.
(Let me prefix this by noting that Allan is surely already aware of the requests for native SFTP, version control UI integration, and other things mentioned in this thread, because he's said so -- in some cases multiple times -- on this very mailing list.)
Here, access to svn is *very* close at hand. I don't see the benefit of expending energy to writing a "built-in" svn client when access to an *existing* client
Try this: In TM's project drawer, in a project checked into Subversion, rename any file.
Result: you've just broken your Subversion working copy, because Subversion was not consulted about the name change. Renaming the file back will fix it, of course, but you get the idea. That's the level of integration we're missing: the 'oh, TextMate *understands* Subversion' experience, as opposed to 'TextMate supports Subversion' (or Xcode's wacky 'dude, where's my SCM status?' shell game). It requires a level of plugin support TextMate doesn't provide yet.
To be clear, I am _not_ criticizing TextMate's development history. Quite the opposite: I'm happy with where TM is and where it seems to be headed. Well-architected code takes time. If TM already had some of the features under discussion here, there'd be other features missing that are more central to TM's mission, like, say, snippets.
Bottom line: the SVN bundle is not shabby at all, but there is certainly more that could be done to *integrate* Subversion (or CVS, or Mercurial,...), given future potential support from the TM core app. (There are also more commands to be implemented, but that's another thread...)
Chris (creator/co-author of the Subversion bundle)
On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:03 PM, Chris Thomas wrote:
(Let me prefix this by noting that Allan is surely already aware of the requests for native SFTP, version control UI integration, and other things mentioned in this thread, because he's said so -- in some cases multiple times -- on this very mailing list.)
Here, access to svn is *very* close at hand. I don't see the benefit of expending energy to writing a "built-in" svn client when access to an *existing* client
Try this: In TM's project drawer, in a project checked into Subversion, rename any file.
Result: you've just broken your Subversion working copy,
Oops! Good point. You're right... after a few unpleasant events I trained myself to NOT rename Subversion-controlled files from within TextMate. Soooo... a useful addition to TextMate functionality would be for it to understand (or be told) that some particular TextMate project was under version control and then to somehow confer with the version control gizmo of the moment before doing (certain) things. ("I've been asked to delete this file. Do you mind?" "Would you like me to perhaps display a dialog for you first?")
eo
because Subversion was not consulted about the name change. Renaming the file back will fix it, of course, but you get the idea. That's the level of integration we're missing: the 'oh, TextMate *understands* Subversion' experience, as opposed to 'TextMate supports Subversion' (or Xcode's wacky 'dude, where's my SCM status?' shell game). It requires a level of plugin support TextMate doesn't provide yet.
To be clear, I am _not_ criticizing TextMate's development history. Quite the opposite: I'm happy with where TM is and where it seems to be headed. Well-architected code takes time. If TM already had some of the features under discussion here, there'd be other features missing that are more central to TM's mission, like, say, snippets.
Bottom line: the SVN bundle is not shabby at all, but there is certainly more that could be done to *integrate* Subversion (or CVS, or Mercurial,...), given future potential support from the TM core app. (There are also more commands to be implemented, but that's another thread...)
Chris (creator/co-author of the Subversion bundle)
I realize I can do this (as far as connecting with transmit, then editing in textmate), I'd just like something more integrated. How cool would it be to be able to have "bookmarks" that would open a directory on a server, and on the left side a tree-view of the files on a server? If it were a CVS, or subversion, you could right click the file, to view a diff on two revisions, or just right click commit, or roll back, and most importantly view the comment history.
This is something I really long for, and where TextMate could excel. There just really is no good mac solution for this. Zend Studio, has a horrible interface, Eclipse doesn't run properly on intel macs and so forth...
On Jun 26, 2006, at 2:58 PM, Eric O'Brien wrote:
I'm not a programmer, just using TextMate and Subversion to work on a couple of tiny web sites. So I may well be missing some things here.
Is this sort of a discussion about where a "text editor" ends and an IDE begins? That is, is it about to what extent should version or source control, or remote file transfer (etc.) be "built in" to a text editor? When does the product cease being purely a text editor? (Maybe TextMate has already crossed the line!)
I'm smoothly working on TextMate projects that are Working Copies checked out of a Subversion repository. From within TextMate I can, with a keystroke. commit a file or files back to the repository or issue numerous other SVN commands. If I knew enough about what I was seeing, I could modify the svn bundle if I wanted to. Here, access to svn is *very* close at hand. I don't see the benefit of expending energy to writing a "built-in" svn client when access to an *existing* client
When I want a visual svn client, I use svnX. For me, that works fine (and saves me the trouble of trying to memorize commands I rarely use).
As to the comments "almost every file is edited online" and "Editing over the network" ... this type of description has been used before and I don't get it. It's not possible (is it?) to edit or view a file unless it's accessible on the local filesystem. If I check out a working copy from a remote repository a *copy* is made locally. Any edits I do are done locally. When I commit my changes, those changes are *uploaded* back to the remote repository. This is not "Editing over the network."
If I have a sftp session open with Interarchy or Transmit, select a file in the list and choose "Edit With TextMate," a file opens in TextMate. But it is *not* the file that is on the server that has been opened (right?). Instead, it's a temporary file that the ftp client (silently) creates. When I edit and save, more magic happens and the local file is (again, silently) uploaded to the server and replaces the existing one. It *appears* that I am "editing online" but technically that's not what's happening.
Or am I all mixed up? ;)
eo
On Jun 25, 2006, at 10:42 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, thanks this still doesn't solve any problems. Rather than spending an hour posting on a blog about how you hate feature requests, why not just implement the really good ones?. Especially Really Good CVS, Subversion, SFTP, Editing over the networking stuff. There is not one single good CVS client for mac, eclipse, zend studio, all of them suck, yet textmate "is the missing editor for the 21st century", Well in the 21st century almost every file is edited online and checked into a versioning system. And of course since the author wouldn't want to put it to a vote, (even though every single person using TextMate) would want CVS support built in... I guess we're just out of luck.
I'm irritated that the only comments have been, about the actual comment an not the feature I'm requesting, or others have requested. If textmate really isn't interested in becoming the missing editor for the 21st century, then I'm going to post, a $20,000 bounty for several x-code developers to make me a near duplicate of textmate with full cvs browser, subversion, browser, sftp, and network connectivity and give it for free.
You just can't build an editor these days, let alone one that's "for the 21st century" and not have support for networks.
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 27 juin 06, at 06:56, Court K. wrote:
I realize I can do this (as far as connecting with transmit, then editing in textmate), I'd just like something more integrated. How cool would it be to be able to have "bookmarks" that would open a directory on a server, and on the left side a tree-view of the files on a server? If it were a CVS, or subversion, you could right click the file, to view a diff on two revisions, or just right click commit, or roll back, and most importantly view the comment history.
FYI (I'm speaking to all!),
svnX does this since rev 25. For now you have to compile it with XCode because rev 25 has not been released yet (that should not be long).
In other words : you press a key from textmate and svnX displays the history of the file, letting you use a diff tool to compare any two versions.
It's a US pharmacy chain. :)
On Jun 26, 2006, at 1:27 AM, guerom00 wrote:
I don't even know what CVS is...
Court K. <lists@...> writes:
love textmate, it's always lacked in CVS support...
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
At 6:31 PM -0700 6/25/06, Court K. wrote:
love textmate, it's always lacked in CVS support, you add features that [...]
The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY. who agrees with me? we your customers want CVS support, and SFTP, FTP, and networked support, and not through some third party client. You want to
I disagree with you. I am personally very happy with the current support in TextMate for version control and remote editing. I use Subversion, and don't see any value in moving my SFTP access from Interarchy to TextMate.
I'm irritated that the only comments have been, about the actual comment an not the feature I'm requesting, or others have requested.
Hopefully I've satisfied your criteria of posting on the features you've requested. I don't personally care about them, and those features being added won't influence anyone I know, either.
If textmate really isn't interested in becoming the missing editor for the 21st century, then I'm going to post, a $20,000 bounty for several x-code developers to make me a near duplicate of textmate with full cvs browser, subversion, browser, sftp, and network connectivity and give it for free.
Instead of posting a $20K bounty for a duplicate of TextMate (good luck with that), perhaps you could find a version control consultant, and pay them $2K (1/10th) to help you migrate from CVS to Subversion...?
It will probably read like it, but I'm really not trying to be an asshole here. There are clearly features you would like to see, but they are not my features, and you asked for others' perspectives.
And there are work-arounds (CVS->SVN) that will bring you many other benefits besides integrated support in TextMate. I really do mean that as a helpful suggestion.
Michael
You really think I'm going to convince entire fortune 500 companies to just switch to subversion? Why not implement cvs? My guess is the reason subversion support sprung up so fast was because it was easier to code. More companies use CVS. Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server. Rather than changing every existing company over to subversion, why not support something that is already the standard for version control? That's like saying Mozilla Firefox is superior to Internet Explorer and I should just force every company I consult for, and all their client base to switch to Firefox. It won't work like that. I like subversion too, but in consulting with hundreds of companies I've only found one that actually used subversion.
On Jun 25, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Michael A. Alderete wrote:
Instead of posting a $20K bounty for a duplicate of TextMate (good luck with that), perhaps you could find a version control consultant, and pay them $2K (1/10th) to help you migrate from CVS to Subversion...?
It will probably read like it, but I'm really not trying to be an asshole here. There are clearly features you would like to see, but they are not my features, and you asked for others' perspectives.
And there are work-arounds (CVS->SVN) that will bring you many other benefits besides integrated support in TextMate. I really do mean that as a helpful suggestion.
Michael
Michael A. Alderete mailto:lists-2003@alderete.com http://www.alderete.com
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On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:46 PM, Court K. wrote:
You really think I'm going to convince entire fortune 500 companies to just switch to subversion? Why not implement cvs? My guess is the reason subversion support sprung up so fast was because it was easier to code. More companies use CVS. Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server. Rather than changing every existing company over to subversion, why not support something that is already the standard for version control? That's like saying Mozilla Firefox is superior to Internet Explorer and I should just force every company I consult for, and all their client base to switch to Firefox. It won't work like that. I like subversion too, but in consulting with hundreds of companies I've only found one that actually used subversion.
I'm probably not at the same level of programming experience as you, but my experience in dealing with corporations is that the end user really doesn't care what the underlying code is, much less how the coder manages his code.
One of the (many) nice things about TextMate is that it is easily extensible through bundles. Why don't you make a CVS bundle that does what you want?
Mike
On Jun 27, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Court K. wrote:
You really think I'm going to convince entire fortune 500 companies to just switch to subversion? Why not implement cvs? My guess is the reason subversion support sprung up so fast was because it was easier to code. More companies use CVS. Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server. Rather than changing every existing company over to subversion, why not support something that is already the standard for version control? That's like saying Mozilla Firefox is superior to Internet Explorer and I should just force every company I consult for, and all their client base to switch to Firefox. It won't work like that. I like subversion too, but in consulting with hundreds of companies I've only found one that actually used subversion.
I agree with you that we live in a world of reality, not ideal. Ideally, everyone would switch to Macs and use FireFox. Ideally, everyone would switch to Subversion or Mercurial. Ideally, TextMate should have perfect support for all Subversion, CVS, Mercurial, etc...
Unfortunately, we have to deal with the cards we've been dealt. If really good CVS support is so important to you, you only have a few options.
Allan isn't going to get to it any time soon, he's busy with other stuff. This point is not arguable. Most of the bundle creation guys create stuff for themselves and share it with the rest of us. We spend a lot of time and effort to create stuff because we want to. We don't get paid for this stuff.
If you want really good CVS support on the Mac you'll need to either create the bundle yourself, convince someone to do it for fun or hire someone to do it for you.
I think your chances of convincing someone to do it for free aren't too likely to succeed. I can't do it for free or for pay since I'm booked up for the new few months at least, and i would have absolutely no use for it.
If you really want to hire someone to do it, i'd suggest contacting people individually with a proposal. You might even want to have someone create a Mac based CVS app that isn't entirely dependent on TextMate.
As I see it, those are your only options.
thomas Aylott—subtleGradient
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request. He explained what he was looking for and why it would be valuable, and even offered a monetary bonus for someone to work on it (plus assistance with UI design, if I remember correctly). If you don't want to help out w/ CVS support, why is it necessary to bash CVS or this guy for doing what everyone else does when they would like to see a feature added to TextMate? It just doesn't seem very constructive, but maybe I'm confused as to what this list is for other than praising Allan and evidently promoting Subversion.
Jeff.
On Jun 27, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Court K. wrote:
You really think I'm going to convince entire fortune 500 companies to just switch to subversion? Why not implement cvs? My guess is the reason subversion support sprung up so fast was because it was easier to code. More companies use CVS. Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server. Rather than changing every existing company over to subversion, why not support something that is already the standard for version control? That's like saying Mozilla Firefox is superior to Internet Explorer and I should just force every company I consult for, and all their client base to switch to Firefox. It won't work like that. I like subversion too, but in consulting with hundreds of companies I've only found one that actually used subversion.
On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote:
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request.
I have no problem with his feature request.
I do have a problem with the fact that he can't seem to stop putting words in my mouth. Another example from a recent message:
On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server.
I've been a contract programmer for seven years now and this has not been my experience.
I did have to use CVS for a while after most were on Subversion, to stay compatible with my clients. My last client switched about a year ago now though, and it's been 100% Subversion ever since.
James Edward Gray II
James:
That doesn't put words in your mouth that just makes you the 1%. Seriously you should consider yourself lucky. I can't name one fortune 100, or fortune 500, or company with over 50 employees using subversion. Although I wish more were
-Court
On Jun 27, 2006, at 6:54 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:
On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote:
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request.
I have no problem with his feature request.
I do have a problem with the fact that he can't seem to stop putting words in my mouth. Another example from a recent message:
On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server.
I've been a contract programmer for seven years now and this has not been my experience.
I did have to use CVS for a while after most were on Subversion, to stay compatible with my clients. My last client switched about a year ago now though, and it's been 100% Subversion ever since.
James Edward Gray II
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
I can name two I've worked for with over 50 employees: Industrial Light & Magic and Tippett Studio.
You're right, though, that SVN isn't the end-all version control system in the real world, but neither is CVS. The order of the day with huge commercial development is Perforce -- of companies with whom I've worked, ILM, NVIDIA, ATI, and *Microsoft* all do most of their version control through Perforce -- and TextMate's Perforce support is plenty usable.
Even this line of argument falls flat, however, when considering how many "fortune 100 companies" (as though they're the primary market for software development tools) do primary development on OS X, in the first place. -jrk
On 6/27/06, Court K. lists@courtkizer.com wrote:
James:
That doesn't put words in your mouth that just makes you the 1%. Seriously you should consider yourself lucky. I can't name one fortune 100, or fortune 500, or company with over 50 employees using subversion. Although I wish more were
-Court
On Jun 27, 2006, at 6:54 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:
On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote:
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request.
I have no problem with his feature request.
I do have a problem with the fact that he can't seem to stop putting words in my mouth. Another example from a recent message:
On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server.
I've been a contract programmer for seven years now and this has not been my experience.
I did have to use CVS for a while after most were on Subversion, to stay compatible with my clients. My last client switched about a year ago now though, and it's been 100% Subversion ever since.
James Edward Gray II
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On Jun 27, 2006, at 10:26 AM, Court K. wrote:
I can't name one fortune 100, or fortune 500, or company with over 50 employees using subversion. Although I wish more were
as you (hopefully) have figured out by now, repeatedly waving that Fortune-500 flag won't get you anywhere on this list -- and rightfully so. You might have a point that version control support in general (SVN, CVS or whatever) cannot currently be solved by bundles in a completely satisfying way -- as Chris Thomas pointed out very nicely in a previous post -- and there are probably many more people here who would like to see better native integration of SVN (and maybe even CVS) in future versions. However, the way you are presenting your arguments feels like a case study in counter- productivity and any valid concerns you might have raised have long been voided by your pointlessly obstreperous tone.
Sebastian
On Jun 27, 2006, at 6:54 AM, James Edward Gray II wrote:
On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote:
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request.
I have no problem with his feature request.
I do have a problem with the fact that he can't seem to stop putting words in my mouth. Another example from a recent message:
On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:46 PM, Court K. wrote:
Yes, subversion is much nicer, however when dealing with 99% of the companies (if you consult) you will be using a CVS server.
I've been a contract programmer for seven years now and this has not been my experience.
I did have to use CVS for a while after most were on Subversion, to stay compatible with my clients. My last client switched about a year ago now though, and it's been 100% Subversion ever since.
James Edward Gray II
_ For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 27 Jun 2006, at 15:41, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote:
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request. He explained what he was looking for and why it would be valuable, and even offered a monetary bonus for someone to work on it (plus assistance with UI design, if I remember correctly). If you don't want to help out w/ CVS support, why is it necessary to bash CVS or this guy for doing what everyone else does when they would like to see a feature added to TextMate? It just doesn't seem very constructive, but maybe I'm confused as to what this list is for other than praising Allan and evidently promoting Subversion.
Maybe it has something to do with how he requested it? Just maybe. ;)
With affirmation like "Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support", "The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY", "not that crappy bundle that's going around", etc., I don't think it's a good way to introduce yourself and make a feature request. Everyone and is mom has THE absolute missing feature that is so easy to implement. The assumption that everyone has the same request than you won't help because it's not true, most answers talking about svn where just pointing that.
Allan is the one who decide what comes next and he already wrote that connectivity improvements are on the todo. Thinking he will change his plans or suddenly code faster to earn a whooping $500 is a bit immature IMHO.
I'd recommend searching the archives first, then, as Jonathan pointed, reading Brent Simmons’ post[1], which, BTW, is not Jonathan posting about how he hates feature requests, but a post of the NetNewsWire's dev. explaining how to make feature requests that might have a chance to succeed.
This list is friendly, keep it that way.
[1]http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3291
-- FredB
I'd recommend searching the archives first, then, as Jonathan pointed, reading Brent Simmons’ post[1], which, BTW, is not Jonathan posting about how he hates feature requests, but a post of the NetNewsWire's dev. explaining how to make feature requests that might have a chance to succeed.
This list is friendly, keep it that way.
A quick follow up to that - apologies for the terseness of my reply in the first instance. It was late, I had (foolishly, it seems!) thought that this thread would just be ignored, and I wasn't trying to flamebait. I just remembered reading that post[1] when it was first written, and thought it amusing that this feature request just about hit every one of the "don't do this" points.
I agree that CVS integration would be a nice feature, but I also agree that posting feature requests which may come across as threatening demands is really the issue here, not whether CVS is better than SVN, or how much we all love Allan :)
For what it's worth, I think what *also* caused a spark here is the fact that, although TextMate is closed source, it has an excellent bundle mechanism for adding precisely this sort of functionality. In my humble opinion, TextMate should have as *little* built into it as possible - Allan's developing a platform here, not an application, and the better the platform is, the more flexible it can become. My gut tells me that the community likes that approach, and the idea of building in more functionality which can already be provided via an *optional* bundle is seen as being completely orthogonal to this winning philosophy.
In summary, yes, let's keep this friendly, and I'm sorry if I did anything to hamper that goal.
Cheers,
-J
Fred:
It's not about a stupid little $500 to code my feature in. How much money would it cost me to buy textmate, as well as the programming team for one year? $500,000? More? How much should my feature cost? Because I'm just about willing to pay any price. I've already posted 3 job positions in san francisco for x-code developers to either write a bundle (i don't think it would allow me to have a full browser), or build me an editor that would.
TextMate makes bold claims everywhere on the front page about being "the missing editor for the 21st century", why is it so wrong for me to ask it to live up to those claims in a similar bold fashion. It's not like I'm requesting syntax highlighting for some obscure language written 10 years ago.
-Court
On Jun 27, 2006, at 7:22 AM, Fred B. wrote:
On 27 Jun 2006, at 15:41, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote:
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request. He explained what he was looking for and why it would be valuable, and even offered a monetary bonus for someone to work on it (plus assistance with UI design, if I remember correctly). If you don't want to help out w/ CVS support, why is it necessary to bash CVS or this guy for doing what everyone else does when they would like to see a feature added to TextMate? It just doesn't seem very constructive, but maybe I'm confused as to what this list is for other than praising Allan and evidently promoting Subversion.
Maybe it has something to do with how he requested it? Just maybe. ;)
With affirmation like "Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support", "The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY", "not that crappy bundle that's going around", etc., I don't think it's a good way to introduce yourself and make a feature request. Everyone and is mom has THE absolute missing feature that is so easy to implement. The assumption that everyone has the same request than you won't help because it's not true, most answers talking about svn where just pointing that.
Allan is the one who decide what comes next and he already wrote that connectivity improvements are on the todo. Thinking he will change his plans or suddenly code faster to earn a whooping $500 is a bit immature IMHO.
I'd recommend searching the archives first, then, as Jonathan pointed, reading Brent Simmons’ post[1], which, BTW, is not Jonathan posting about how he hates feature requests, but a post of the NetNewsWire's dev. explaining how to make feature requests that might have a chance to succeed.
This list is friendly, keep it that way.
[1]http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3291
-- FredB
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
Curt,
Would you PLEASE shut the hell up already? You have made your point (twice) and you you in the minority.
TM is clearly not for you -- oh well. Please move on, the rest of us are happy
On 6/27/06, Court K. lists@courtkizer.com wrote:
Fred:
It's not about a stupid little $500 to code my feature in. How much money would it cost me to buy textmate, as well as the programming team for one year? $500,000? More? How much should my feature cost? Because I'm just about willing to pay any price. I've already posted 3 job positions in san francisco for x-code developers to either write a bundle (i don't think it would allow me to have a full browser), or build me an editor that would.
TextMate makes bold claims everywhere on the front page about being "the missing editor for the 21st century", why is it so wrong for me to ask it to live up to those claims in a similar bold fashion. It's not like I'm requesting syntax highlighting for some obscure language written 10 years ago.
-Court
On Jun 27, 2006, at 7:22 AM, Fred B. wrote:
On 27 Jun 2006, at 15:41, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote: I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request. He explained what he was looking for and why it would be valuable, and even offered a monetary bonus for someone to work on it (plus assistance with UI design, if I remember correctly). If you don't want to help out w/ CVS support, why is it necessary to bash CVS or this guy for doing what everyone else does when they would like to see a feature added to TextMate? It just doesn't seem very constructive, but maybe I'm confused as to what this list is for other than praising Allan and evidently promoting Subversion.
Maybe it has something to do with how he requested it? Just maybe. ;)
With affirmation like "Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support", "The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY", "not that crappy bundle that's going around", etc., I don't think it's a good way to introduce yourself and make a feature request. Everyone and is mom has THE absolute missing feature that is so easy to implement. The assumption that everyone has the same request than you won't help because it's not true, most answers talking about svn where just pointing that.
Allan is the one who decide what comes next and he already wrote that connectivity improvements are on the todo. Thinking he will change his plans or suddenly code faster to earn a whooping $500 is a bit immature IMHO.
I'd recommend searching the archives first, then, as Jonathan pointed, reading Brent Simmons' post[1], which, BTW, is not Jonathan posting about how he hates feature requests, but a post of the NetNewsWire's dev. explaining how to make feature requests that might have a chance to succeed.
This list is friendly, keep it that way.
[1]http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3291
-- FredB
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
Alright already, geeze people. I was not the one who escalated the issue to start with. I asked for a feature, in a way that offended everyone obviously. I don't work for another company, I don't make editors. Obviously strongly suggesting and begging for a feature, gets everyone's panties in a knot. So, I will shutup and leave now. Thanks for clearing up the CVS support issue for me.
Best Regards,
Court Kizer
On Jun 27, 2006, at 8:40 AM, David Clark wrote:
Curt,
Would you PLEASE shut the hell up already? You have made your point (twice) and you you in the minority.
TM is clearly not for you -- oh well. Please move on, the rest of us are happy
On 6/27/06, Court K. lists@courtkizer.com wrote:
Fred:
It's not about a stupid little $500 to code my feature in. How much money would it cost me to buy textmate, as well as the programming team for one year? $500,000? More? How much should my feature cost? Because I'm just about willing to pay any price. I've already posted 3 job positions in san francisco for x-code developers to either write a bundle (i don't think it would allow me to have a full browser), or build me an editor that would.
TextMate makes bold claims everywhere on the front page about being "the missing editor for the 21st century", why is it so wrong for me to ask it to live up to those claims in a similar bold fashion. It's not like I'm requesting syntax highlighting for some obscure language written 10 years ago.
-Court
On Jun 27, 2006, at 7:22 AM, Fred B. wrote:
On 27 Jun 2006, at 15:41, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote: I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request. He explained what he was looking for and why it would be valuable, and even offered a monetary bonus for someone to work on it (plus assistance with UI design, if I remember correctly). If you don't want to help out w/ CVS support, why is it necessary to bash CVS or this guy for doing what everyone else does when they would like to see a feature added to TextMate? It just doesn't seem very constructive, but maybe I'm confused as to what this list is for other than praising Allan and evidently promoting Subversion.
Maybe it has something to do with how he requested it? Just maybe. ;)
With affirmation like "Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support", "The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY", "not that crappy bundle that's going around", etc., I don't think it's a good way to introduce yourself and make a feature request. Everyone and is mom has THE absolute missing feature that is so easy to implement. The assumption that everyone has the same request than you won't help because it's not true, most answers talking about svn where just pointing that.
Allan is the one who decide what comes next and he already wrote that connectivity improvements are on the todo. Thinking he will change his plans or suddenly code faster to earn a whooping $500 is a bit immature IMHO.
I'd recommend searching the archives first, then, as Jonathan pointed, reading Brent Simmons' post[1], which, BTW, is not Jonathan posting about how he hates feature requests, but a post of the NetNewsWire's dev. explaining how to make feature requests that might have a chance to succeed.
This list is friendly, keep it that way.
[1]http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3291
-- FredB
_ For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
_ For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
-- dc
David Clark Web Specialist Institute for Community Inclusion (http://www.communityinclusion.org/) david.clark@umb.edu (617) 287-4318
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
I will shutup and leave now.
mm-buh-bye :-D
:::: DataFly.Net :::: Complete Web Services http://www.datafly.net
Court,
We get that you work for BBEdit already. Please enough.
Mike
On Jun 27, 2006, at 11:33 AM, Court K. wrote:
Fred:
It's not about a stupid little $500 to code my feature in. How much money would it cost me to buy textmate, as well as the programming team for one year? $500,000? More? How much should my feature cost? Because I'm just about willing to pay any price. I've already posted 3 job positions in san francisco for x-code developers to either write a bundle (i don't think it would allow me to have a full browser), or build me an editor that would.
TextMate makes bold claims everywhere on the front page about being "the missing editor for the 21st century", why is it so wrong for me to ask it to live up to those claims in a similar bold fashion. It's not like I'm requesting syntax highlighting for some obscure language written 10 years ago.
-Court
On Jun 27, 2006, at 7:22 AM, Fred B. wrote:
On 27 Jun 2006, at 15:41, Jeffrey Robert Spies wrote:
I'm really quite disappointed in how the list has responded to Court K.'s feature request. He explained what he was looking for and why it would be valuable, and even offered a monetary bonus for someone to work on it (plus assistance with UI design, if I remember correctly). If you don't want to help out w/ CVS support, why is it necessary to bash CVS or this guy for doing what everyone else does when they would like to see a feature added to TextMate? It just doesn't seem very constructive, but maybe I'm confused as to what this list is for other than praising Allan and evidently promoting Subversion.
Maybe it has something to do with how he requested it? Just maybe. ;)
With affirmation like "Textmate as an editor is nothing without CVS support", "The one and only thing the developers should focus on right now is. CONNECTIVITY", "not that crappy bundle that's going around", etc., I don't think it's a good way to introduce yourself and make a feature request. Everyone and is mom has THE absolute missing feature that is so easy to implement. The assumption that everyone has the same request than you won't help because it's not true, most answers talking about svn where just pointing that.
Allan is the one who decide what comes next and he already wrote that connectivity improvements are on the todo. Thinking he will change his plans or suddenly code faster to earn a whooping $500 is a bit immature IMHO.
I'd recommend searching the archives first, then, as Jonathan pointed, reading Brent Simmons’ post[1], which, BTW, is not Jonathan posting about how he hates feature requests, but a post of the NetNewsWire's dev. explaining how to make feature requests that might have a chance to succeed.
This list is friendly, keep it that way.
[1]http://inessential.com/?comments=1&postid=3291
-- FredB
_ For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 27/6/2006, at 17:33, Court K. wrote:
[...] TextMate makes bold claims everywhere on the front page about being "the missing editor for the 21st century"
It’s a slogan, alright? And it’s The Missing Editor [for OS X]. Initially coined by DHH [1] after “the missing manuals” series and from his, mine, and others desperate search for a powerful text editor on OS X -- maybe the slogan is arrogant, but it’s how we felt.
The 21st century bit is “code & markup brought to the 21st century” -- that’s a rather subjective statement, but TM has introduced a lot of not-seen-before features, and it does cater to how people mix code’n’markup in the 21st century, something which was at best rare 10 years ago, and something I don’t know of any other text editor which does (thinking here mainly of the scope system inspired by CSS selectors.)
But again, it’s just a slogan. And the slogan doesn’t mention anything about SCM.
So can we put this to rest? I have already outlined future directions [2], others have already told you that CVS is not their “killer feature”, or it’s one of several -- no matter how many Fortune 500 companies, money, or slogans you put on the table, you are not going to change the development plan, which, if you haven’t noticed, already has SCM integration on the roadmap.
I do applaud you for posting job announcements/bounties though to get your problem solved. As for buying the TextMate asset, I am not that familiar with buyouts, but from what I am told about price estimates, it would sell for something around $8 million -- yes, pretty absurd, though I’d still not be interested in selling ;)
[1] http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000270.html [2] http://macromates.com/blog/archives/2006/02/15/future-directions/
Court K. <lists@...> writes:
It's not about a stupid little $500 to code my feature in. How much money would it cost me to buy textmate, as well as the programming team for one year? $500,000? More? How much should my feature cost? Because I'm just about willing to pay any price. I've already posted 3 job positions in san francisco for x-code developers to either write a bundle (i don't think it would allow me to have a full browser), or build me an editor that would.
If you're that desparate, please let me point you to:
IntelliJ IDEA is the editor with the *best* version control (CVS, SVN, ClearCase, Perforce, etc) integration available on the market, bar none. Even if you're not doing Java development, if you value version control integration so much, IDEA is what you want.
Sorry for the plug, BTW. I love TextMate for Ruby and other dynamic languages development (love at first sight. bought a license after using it for two hours), but I use IDEA for java/web development, and it's VCS support really kicks ass.
-- Marcus
-
Allan Odgaard -
Chris Thomas -
Court K. -
David Clark -
Eric O'Brien -
Fred B. -
guerom00 -
James Edward Gray II -
Jeffrey Robert Spies -
Jonathan Barrett -
Jonathan Ragan-Kelley -
Marcus Brito -
Methnen (AKA Jamie) -
Michael A. Alderete -
Michael Gregoire -
Mike Mellor -
Nicholas Orr -
PERETTI Dominique -
Ramanan Sivaranjan -
Sean Schertell -
Sebastian Friedrich -
thomas Aylott