Why isn’t there a forum for TextMate so I don’t have to be subscribed to an entire mailing list just to talk about one thing?
Every time I want to ask something about TextMate I have to subscribe, and then when I’m done, unsubscribe, and it’s a real pain in the ass. Just filtering the email isn’t really an acceptable solution because I prefer not to amass vast quantities of email I don’t care about. (I backup my email among other things).
Sorry to be so moany but I find this really inconvenient. I guess there must be a reason why you have it this way.
Ollie
On Sep 17, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Ollie Saunders wrote:
Why isn’t there a forum for TextMate so I don’t have to be subscribed to an entire mailing list just to talk about one thing?
Every time I want to ask something about TextMate I have to subscribe, and then when I’m done, unsubscribe, and it’s a real pain in the ass. Just filtering the email isn’t really an acceptable solution because I prefer not to amass vast quantities of email I don’t care about. (I backup my email among other things).
Sorry to be so moany but I find this really inconvenient. I guess there must be a reason why you have it this way.
You can disable email delivery by logging into mailman:
http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
With email delivery disabled you'll still be able to send messages to the list and you can browse the archives at your leisure to see responses. The only thing that's a bit harder is replying to messages, because you don't have a message to reply to so you get the proper headers and such.
You are being incredibly "moany". With the low traffic this list has, just shut up and subscribe, or don't. No one cares.
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Michael Sheets mummer@whitefalls.orgwrote:
On Sep 17, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Ollie Saunders wrote:
Why isn’t there a forum for TextMate so I don’t have to be subscribed to an entire mailing list just to talk about one thing?
Every time I want to ask something about TextMate I have to subscribe, and then when I’m done, unsubscribe, and it’s a real pain in the ass. Just filtering the email isn’t really an acceptable solution because I prefer not to amass vast quantities of email I don’t care about. (I backup my email among other things).
Sorry to be so moany but I find this really inconvenient. I guess there must be a reason why you have it this way.
You can disable email delivery by logging into mailman:
http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
With email delivery disabled you'll still be able to send messages to the list and you can browse the archives at your leisure to see responses. The only thing that's a bit harder is replying to messages, because you don't have a message to reply to so you get the proper headers and such.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
No one cares.
Do you speak for everyone?
You are being incredibly "moany".
Yes I’m being moany. I’m being an incredibly moany asshole. You have no reason to listen to me and I have no right to tell you anything. But none of that means I’m wrong.
Don’t listen to me for my sake, listen to me because maybe I’m an asshole who has a point. If I don’t have a point, you don’t have anything to worry about. If I do, then you could stand to make things better. Very little ever got better without somebody complaining about it at first.
With the low traffic this list has, just shut up and subscribe, or don't.
Honestly, it didn’t even occur to me to find out how much traffic there is on this list because I don’t like to remain subscribed to things unless I want to receive all the new posts on that topic. But I wonder just how much traffic simply isn’t materializing because it has to be subscribed to everything and not just particular threads. Maybe if you had a better system, there would be more traffic.
But I dunno, maybe you want to reduce the amount of discussion. Sounds unlikely though.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 04:25, Reaves, Timothy treaves@silverfieldstech.com wrote:
You are being incredibly "moany". With the low traffic this list has, just shut up and subscribe, or don't. No one cares.
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Michael Sheets mummer@whitefalls.org wrote:
On Sep 17, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Ollie Saunders wrote:
Why isn’t there a forum for TextMate so I don’t have to be subscribed to an entire mailing list just to talk about one thing?
Every time I want to ask something about TextMate I have to subscribe, and then when I’m done, unsubscribe, and it’s a real pain in the ass. Just filtering the email isn’t really an acceptable solution because I prefer not to amass vast quantities of email I don’t care about. (I backup my email among other things).
Sorry to be so moany but I find this really inconvenient. I guess there must be a reason why you have it this way.
You can disable email delivery by logging into mailman:
http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
With email delivery disabled you'll still be able to send messages to the list and you can browse the archives at your leisure to see responses. The only thing that's a bit harder is replying to messages, because you don't have a message to reply to so you get the proper headers and such.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 02:14, Michael Sheets mummer@whitefalls.org wrote:
On Sep 17, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Ollie Saunders wrote:
Why isn’t there a forum for TextMate so I don’t have to be subscribed to an entire mailing list just to talk about one thing?
Every time I want to ask something about TextMate I have to subscribe, and then when I’m done, unsubscribe, and it’s a real pain in the ass. Just filtering the email isn’t really an acceptable solution because I prefer not to amass vast quantities of email I don’t care about. (I backup my email among other things).
Sorry to be so moany but I find this really inconvenient. I guess there must be a reason why you have it this way.
You can disable email delivery by logging into mailman:
http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
With email delivery disabled you'll still be able to send messages to the list and you can browse the archives at your leisure to see responses. The only thing that's a bit harder is replying to messages, because you don't have a message to reply to so you get the proper headers and such.
Yeah, that is a problem.
This list is being captured by Google Groups as well, is it not? You could sign up there and treat it as a forum.
Adam Merrifield seydoggy.com
820 Strasburg rd, Kitchener, Ontario, N2E 2Y3, Canada
Email: info@seydoggy.com Office: 519-489-6033 Cell: 519-574-9788
On 2011-09-18, at 7:17, Ollie Saunders oliver.saunders@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 02:14, Michael Sheets mummer@whitefalls.org wrote:
On Sep 17, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Ollie Saunders wrote:
Why isn’t there a forum for TextMate so I don’t have to be subscribed to an entire mailing list just to talk about one thing?
Every time I want to ask something about TextMate I have to subscribe, and then when I’m done, unsubscribe, and it’s a real pain in the ass. Just filtering the email isn’t really an acceptable solution because I prefer not to amass vast quantities of email I don’t care about. (I backup my email among other things).
Sorry to be so moany but I find this really inconvenient. I guess there must be a reason why you have it this way.
You can disable email delivery by logging into mailman:
http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
With email delivery disabled you'll still be able to send messages to the list and you can browse the archives at your leisure to see responses. The only thing that's a bit harder is replying to messages, because you don't have a message to reply to so you get the proper headers and such.
Yeah, that is a problem.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
This list is being captured by Google Groups as well, is it not? You could sign up there and treat it as a forum.
I do agree with the OP in this regard, however. A forum provides a number of advantages, not the least of which is serving as a decent knowledge repository and topical segregation.
It would also allow me to filter people like Timothy Reaves without having to mate .procmailrc or edit GMail filters every time.
jonas
On Sep 18, 2011, at 3:18 PM, Jonas M Luster wrote:
This list is being captured by Google Groups as well, is it not? You could sign up there and treat it as a forum.
I do agree with the OP in this regard, however. A forum provides a number of advantages, not the least of which is serving as a decent knowledge repository and topical segregation.
Everybody uses a different workflow, personally I despise forums.
It would also allow me to filter people like Timothy Reaves without having to mate .procmailrc or edit GMail filters every time.
This thread has been pretty uncivilized. Folks, please keep it constructive!
Gerd
Everybody uses a different workflow, personally I despise forums.
Agreed, tools are tools. I prefer something like a forum because it frees me from having to do the storing and indexing myself. This list hits my gmail account for that reason, and that reason only. I despise graphical mail clients with the same vigor you despise forums and prefer mutt for my daily work, but that means I don't have access to a proper search interface unless I set one up myself. So I leave the storing, indexing, and making searchable of the list to Google, and there's a bunch to store, index, and make searchable - I have been subscribed since inception, almost nine years now?.
Nothing about this particular setup makes it easy for newcomers to search and find solutions. It's not like TM *ahem* changed much in the past *ahem* months, so issues you and I might have dealt with in 2009 can be new for someone who just yesterday downloaded the trial. Now, trying to find THAT in the mailman interface (which is the linked resource off the website) is harsh. Wouldn't having a nice search option, linked right from the website, be better? Your dislike for forums aside, that is.
jonas
-- Textmate User License #81
I agree with Jonas, I'm a newbie to TextMate and I'm sure all the little issues I've had could have been easier to find a solution to with a forum rather than the mailinglist considering I've only been on here for ~2 months.
A little off topic but a good repository for tmbundles that shows compatability(ala. For Wordpress) would been nice too.
thor
On 9/19/11 8:43 AM, "Jonas M Luster" jluster@jluster.org wrote:
Everybody uses a different workflow, personally I despise forums.
Agreed, tools are tools. I prefer something like a forum because it frees me from having to do the storing and indexing myself. This list hits my gmail account for that reason, and that reason only. I despise graphical mail clients with the same vigor you despise forums and prefer mutt for my daily work, but that means I don't have access to a proper search interface unless I set one up myself. So I leave the storing, indexing, and making searchable of the list to Google, and there's a bunch to store, index, and make searchable - I have been subscribed since inception, almost nine years now?.
Nothing about this particular setup makes it easy for newcomers to search and find solutions. It's not like TM *ahem* changed much in the past *ahem* months, so issues you and I might have dealt with in 2009 can be new for someone who just yesterday downloaded the trial. Now, trying to find THAT in the mailman interface (which is the linked resource off the website) is harsh. Wouldn't having a nice search option, linked right from the website, be better? Your dislike for forums aside, that is.
jonas
-- Textmate User License #81
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Jonas M Luster jluster@jluster.org wrote:
but that means I don't have access to a proper search interface unless I set one up myself.
You can, of course, search the archives from lists.macromates.org using google. Just use inurl, like this: http://goo.gl/eVdxS
I've also set up a google CSE for those who might be averse to the inurl operator :)
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=016977937102137750178:bcawbfeylz0
The OS project I work on (disclaimer: I work for the company that “backs” the project) just went through the process of finding a replacement to the project's traditional mailing list for a lot of the reasons that people have raised on this thread.
We ended up settling with GetSatisfaction which, although not perfect, solves many of our problems and importantly is focussed around getting answers to questions and solutions to problems. I think this list has similar kind of content.
Our instance is at http://forums.gradle.org/.
Just throwing this out there in case anyone is interested in taking this further. If anyone wants to ask questions about it I'll happily answer.
Cheers.
LD.
On Sep 19, 2011, at 4:44 AM, Luke Daley wrote:
We ended up settling with GetSatisfaction which, although not perfect, solves many of our problems and importantly is focussed around getting answers to questions and solutions to problems. I think this list has similar kind of content.
That's an interesting idea, but I've always had the sort of odd reaction to Get Satisfaction in general. While it's all very cool and Web 2.0, it seems, from its name on down, to encourage something other than self-serve help requests -- it's more of a mental model of You Owe Me Immediate Answers, and I have seen plenty of whinge-fests played out in its trendy Ajax-loaded pages.
Part of the core -- the ethos -- of Textmate is that it is a developer's tool, and it is deliberately aimed at the deep end of the IQ pool. It is destined to be used by the sorts of people who, in another age, would have taken a piece of raw tool steel and used it to make a factory for churning out toasters (like my grandfather, the tool-and-die maker, did for Sunbeam).
Stick around long enough on this or any other mailing list, and you'll see the "Ask Smarter Questions" link getting passed back to repeat offenders who don't follow the precepts of "Try first, then tell us where and how you got stuck". Maybe it's just me, but the Get Satisfaction model seems to be, "I tried, it *didn't work*, it must be your fault." Maybe the better model would be something like Stack Overflow, where you have to show your work in order to get any (lower-case) satisfaction.
So endeth the morning rant...
Walter
Hello, group,
On Sep 18, 2011, at 4:18 PM, Jonas M Luster wrote:
I do agree with the OP in this regard, however. A forum provides a number of advantages, not the least of which is serving as a decent knowledge repository and topical segregation.
As a casual, infrequent user, unable to contribute on a daily basis owing to ignorance, I'd find a forum more useful, as I do for most of the products I just use a little and only have occasional questions about.
For things where I'm more active, I prefer a mailing list. There might be some best of both worlds system out there, but I don't know what it is.
I agree with others regarding the need for a modicum of courtesy either way.
Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way. -- Jessica Rabbit
*sigh* This old horse. Email or forum, preference is largely determined by what you're used to. Personally, I think the state of the art in network communication peaked about 20 years ago. To this day there no one has come up with a web forum or email client that beats a good ol' threaded newsreader. Sadly, Usenet is considered passé and we're left with second-rate tools.
Now, who let all these kids onto my lawn?
Well I think I’ve discovered the solution that works for me so you might want to recommend this to anyone else who is as complainy as I am on this issue.
What I’ve done is to subscribe to the list but configure mailman not to deliver any mail. I then use Google Groups to post new threads to the list or reply to existing ones with the subscribe option on so that it delivers any new mail on anything that I reply to.
So provided this works as expected, I’m happy.
On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 14:31, Steve King sking@arbor.net wrote:
*sigh* This old horse. Email or forum, preference is largely determined by what you're used to. Personally, I think the state of the art in network communication peaked about 20 years ago. To this day there no one has come up with a web forum or email client that beats a good ol' threaded newsreader. Sadly, Usenet is considered passé and we're left with second-rate tools.
Now, who let all these kids onto my lawn?
-- Steve King Sr. Software Engineer Arbor Networks +1 734 821 1461 www.arbornetworks.com http://www.arbornetworks.com/
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
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Adam Merrifield -
Geoff Beier -
Gerd Knops -
Jonas M Luster -
Luke Daley -
Michael Sheets -
Ollie Saunders -
Reaves, Timothy -
RonJeffries -
Steve King -
Thor Erik Lie -
Walter Lee Davis