Hi there -
Ive been a textmate user for many months now. I notice the most recent download (rev 898) has dramatically changed the "find" dialog, most importantly in that it has removed the option to search and replace within a selection !
I noticed that the "edit" menu has a selection "replace all in selection". There are two problems with this. One is, it doesnt work ! I click on it when i have some text selected, and nothing happens. If it is in fact using my previous selection, thats not very convenient since I dont get a chance to tell it what i want to search and replace. Also, the key comibination - shift+ctrl+apple +F ... a little excessive perhaps ?
Why cant the "replace in selection" checkbox be present in the default "find" dialog like it was, and more importantly, why cant this checkbox be automatically selected when I have text selected ? this is how TextPad does it and it is by far the most intutive way to do it.
- mike
From the first entry in the Release Notes:
[NEW] The find dialog now has a toggle button to change the text fields into multi-line text fields. In this mode, arrow down will move the caret. The pop-up menu can still be reached using ctrl-N. To insert a literal tab or return, you still need to use option tab and option return. The Replace All Scope has been removed and instead you need to hold down shift (or option) when clicking the Replace All button (the label will change) -- this is consistent with how ctrl- cmd F is Replace All and ctrl-shift-cmd F is Replace All in Selection. I have removed some use of bindings from the window, in an attempt of avoiding the crash that some experience when advancing the key focus in that window, should there still be a problem, please report the crash (using the Crash Reporter with the Smart Crash Reports (from Unsanity) installed is enough).
Brad On Jan 4, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Michael Bayer wrote:
Hi there -
Ive been a textmate user for many months now. I notice the most recent download (rev 898) has dramatically changed the "find" dialog, most importantly in that it has removed the option to search and replace within a selection !
I noticed that the "edit" menu has a selection "replace all in selection". There are two problems with this. One is, it doesnt work ! I click on it when i have some text selected, and nothing happens. If it is in fact using my previous selection, thats not very convenient since I dont get a chance to tell it what i want to search and replace. Also, the key comibination - shift+ctrl+apple +F ... a little excessive perhaps ?
Why cant the "replace in selection" checkbox be present in the default "find" dialog like it was, and more importantly, why cant this checkbox be automatically selected when I have text selected ? this is how TextPad does it and it is by far the most intutive way to do it.
- mike
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
OK, "Replace All Scope" was not clear to me that it was "replace all in selection".
Why not have "In Selection" as the default when text is selected (actually i dont like that much, i still think a checkbox is clearer) ? At least, have some kind of visual cue on the dialog box that this is the keystroke required... I know that you are going for keystroke consistency here, but its at the expense of ergonomic comfort.
anyway Ill shut up now that I know how to do it....
On Jan 4, 2006, at 9:07 PM, Brad Miller wrote:
From the first entry in the Release Notes:
[NEW] The find dialog now has a toggle button to change the text fields into multi-line text fields. In this mode, arrow down will move the caret. The pop-up menu can still be reached using ctrl-N. To insert a literal tab or return, you still need to use option tab and option return. The Replace All Scope has been removed and instead you need to hold down shift (or option) when clicking the Replace All button (the label will change) -- this is consistent with how ctrl-cmd F is Replace All and ctrl-shift-cmd F is Replace All in Selection. I have removed some use of bindings from the window, in an attempt of avoiding the crash that some experience when advancing the key focus in that window, should there still be a problem, please report the crash (using the Crash Reporter with the Smart Crash Reports (from Unsanity) installed is enough).
Brad On Jan 4, 2006, at 7:53 PM, Michael Bayer wrote:
Hi there -
Ive been a textmate user for many months now. I notice the most recent download (rev 898) has dramatically changed the "find" dialog, most importantly in that it has removed the option to search and replace within a selection !
I noticed that the "edit" menu has a selection "replace all in selection". There are two problems with this. One is, it doesnt work ! I click on it when i have some text selected, and nothing happens. If it is in fact using my previous selection, thats not very convenient since I dont get a chance to tell it what i want to search and replace. Also, the key comibination - shift+ctrl +apple+F ... a little excessive perhaps ?
Why cant the "replace in selection" checkbox be present in the default "find" dialog like it was, and more importantly, why cant this checkbox be automatically selected when I have text selected ? this is how TextPad does it and it is by far the most intutive way to do it.
- mike
_ For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 5/1/2006, at 3:16, Michael Bayer wrote:
[...] i still think a checkbox is clearer) ?
Actually, some of the motivation to change it was, that many confused the Replace All Scope with also applying to limiting the Find to be only in the selection (and thus sent me bug reports).
This new approach should be free of that problem.
Since the modifier is shift, the likelihood of the user seeing the button label change when entering a find string is something I'd give rather good odds, thus I do not see that big a problem with having the feature “hidden”.
On Jan 4, 2006, at 9:26 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Since the modifier is shift, the likelihood of the user seeing the button label change when entering a find string is something I'd give rather good odds, thus I do not see that big a problem with having the feature “hidden”.
I would bet a lot of people never become aware of it. I hope its at least documented somewhere besides the release notes...otherwise, im glad to be in on the secret !
On Jan 4, 2006, at 20:40, Michael Bayer wrote:
On Jan 4, 2006, at 9:26 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Since the modifier is shift, the likelihood of the user seeing the button label change when entering a find string is something I'd give rather good odds, thus I do not see that big a problem with having the feature “hidden”.
I would bet a lot of people never become aware of it. I hope its at least documented somewhere besides the release notes...otherwise, im glad to be in on the secret !
I agree. It used to be one of the top rules in Apple's Interface Guidelines that there should not be any hidden functionality.
Then Safari came along and breaks that rule left and right. Menu's change when Option is held down, now the stupid context menu as well forcing my hand back to the keyboard... I personally hate that hidden functionality. There are to many hard to discover features in TM as is. No need to add to that on purpose! Pop Quiz: How is incremental search in TM activated?
Gerd
I like the new way as it makes me not reach for the mouse, however, I would never find it without refering to the manual or release notes, in which case I'd think the editor missed the option (had I been a new user). It's not like one begins to press modifier keys within such dialogs just to see if things change, so it's a doubble edged sword.
Andreas
Ehm, I spoke to soon. I thought a shift+enter would replace all in current selection (or somethng like that). Is there a way, using only keyboard, to replace all within current selection? This is about the only action I use replace/find for.
Andreas
On Jan 5, 2006, at 14:37 , Andreas Wahlin wrote:
I like the new way as it makes me not reach for the mouse, however, I would never find it without refering to the manual or release notes, in which case I'd think the editor missed the option (had I been a new user). It's not like one begins to press modifier keys within such dialogs just to see if things change, so it's a doubble edged sword.
Andreas
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 5/1/2006, at 14:50, Andreas Wahlin wrote:
Is there a way, using only keyboard, to replace all within current selection? This is about the only action I use replace/find for.
Edit -> Find has:
Replace All ctrl-cmd F Replace All in Selection ctrl-shift-cmd F
Right there in the GUI, visible and everything!
Sorry to use you as an example Andreas, but it's funny with these “I bet a lot of users won't find it now that it's so secret and hidden” because I get tons of questions about stuff which is not hidden -- so not being able to find things goes even for visible stuff (like tab size, word wrap, how to change language, find in project, etc.) -- actually hiding the expert things increase the likelihood of people finding the non-expert stuff, because there is then less clutter.
It's quite ok to take me as an example; I've practiced martial arts :) I always look in other programs, but not textmate, it's as if I think it's going to be hidden so I don't bother looking for it. I should probably start paying attention to the graphical menus as much in TM as in other places. Don't know why really but it just feels like the graphic menus don't tell the whole story, and they don't, but often enough they do :)
Andreas
On Jan 5, 2006, at 17:02 , Allan Odgaard wrote:
On 5/1/2006, at 14:50, Andreas Wahlin wrote:
Is there a way, using only keyboard, to replace all within current selection? This is about the only action I use replace/find for.
Edit -> Find has:
Replace All ctrl-cmd F Replace All in Selection ctrl-shift-cmd F
Right there in the GUI, visible and everything!
Sorry to use you as an example Andreas, but it's funny with these “I bet a lot of users won't find it now that it's so secret and hidden” because I get tons of questions about stuff which is not hidden -- so not being able to find things goes even for visible stuff (like tab size, word wrap, how to change language, find in project, etc.) -- actually hiding the expert things increase the likelihood of people finding the non-expert stuff, because there is then less clutter.
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 5/1/2006, at 5:36, Gerd Knops wrote:
Then Safari came along and breaks that rule left and right. Menu's change when Option is held down [...]
As a Cocoa developer I was long envious of this feature being Carbon- only, which lead me to believe it stems from Classic, and not OS X/NeXT.
Personally I like it very much, because there are often menu items which have slight variations, but putting them all in the menu would result in clutter (e.g. TM has 5 variations of “Paste”) -- and often the slight variations are only needed by expert users -- I agree there is a problem with discoverability, OTOH there's nothing like having a used a program for half a year and finding a new time-saving feature :)
Pop Quiz: How is incremental search in TM activated?
This feature is intentionally left out from the UI since it's not something I officially “support”. The action methods to call it are named ISIM_incrementalSearch: and ISIM_reverseIncrementalSearch: since it's basically just reproducing an NSTextView input manager patch for my OakTextView (i.e. it was intended only so that users of ISIM wouldn't lack this functionality in TM).
On Jan 4, 2006, at 9:26 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Since the modifier is shift, the likelihood of the user seeing the button label change when entering a find string is something I'd give rather good odds, thus I do not see that big a problem with having the feature ³hidden².
I think shift is a fine discoverable key in a find dialog. Once people understand that option discovers options in menus, this is a very easy and comfortable habit: it is the best solution I know of. The alternatives are more items (impossible to use), or no discoverability at all (yuck).
I think if Textmate started its help on launch by default, and also gave start-up tips enabled by default users would learn more, more quickly.
The screen casts and manuals are going to make a massive help!
Gerd wrote: Pop Quiz: How is incremental search in TM activated?
Ctrl-S. A massive nice feature, still undiscoverable by any means :-(
It absolutely needs to be in the Find menu. (and in help, under find and under incremental).
Hey Allen: hope you are having a ball! Sooo wish I was skiing right now: nothing beats downhill racing.
t
On 5/1/2006, at 2:53, Michael Bayer wrote:
Why cant the "replace in selection" checkbox be present in the default "find" dialog like it was
First entry in the release notes which should have opened:
[...] The Replace All Scope has been removed and instead you need to hold down shift (or option) when clicking the Replace All button (the label will change) -- this is consistent with how ctrl-cmd F is Replace All and ctrl-shift-cmd F is Replace All in Selection.
As to _why_ I change things, I do that in an attempt of improving the user interface. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes it's for the worse. But generally I have to test this before I can be sure, and it needs more than two hours of use to be judged.
and more importantly, why cant this checkbox be automatically selected when I have text selected ?
Because that conflicts with a lot of peoples usage pattern:
1) select text to use as find string 2) press cmd-E (copy to find clipboard) or cmd-C (to manually paste) 3) press cmd-F to enter a replace string -- now with TextPad the scope would have been set to Selection which is not what is desired 4) enter replace string and click Replace All / press ctrl-cmd F
While sometimes desired, the “automatic” behavior does break principle of least surprise [1] in that an option you manually set to something, changes on-the-fly.
[1] I don't live by that principle, but this is a case where the behavior can be downright frustrating for some users, because they have to remember to manually correct the “smart” behavior of TM each time they want to do a Replace All.
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Allan Odgaard -
Andreas Wahlin -
Brad Miller -
Gerd Knops -
Michael Bayer -
Timothy Bates