Dammit, Textmate 2 has just gotten to the fifth place in the Vaporware Awards ;)
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/12/vaporware-2009-inhale-the-fail/
Cheers,
Niels
On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:42 AM, Niels Kobschaetzki wrote:
Dammit, Textmate 2 has just gotten to the fifth place in the Vaporware Awards ;)
I guess they haven’t seen our “I BELIEVE” vapor-shirts.
I don’t recall TM2 ever being promised for a 2009 release, so according to their rules, it shouldn’t qualify. Just to be a smart-ass Allan should announce a release date… the day before.
On Dec 22, 2009, at 7:42 AM, Niels Kobschaetzki <n.kobschaetzki@googlemail.com
wrote:
Dammit, Textmate 2 has just gotten to the fifth place in the Vaporware Awards ;)
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/12/vaporware-2009-inhale-the-fail/
Just goes to show what rubbish Wired has become as a reliable reporting agency with integrity. Their past lack of fact checking and error prone sensationalist headlines are reason enough to not take them seriously...
But their own rules to the "vaporware" article are as published in a linked story/article:
The rules: The product must have been promised to ship during 2009. No rumors. That means no Apple iTablets, Nike hover boards or 99-inch LED TVs. It has to have been announced with a 2009 release date attached. If you can buy it, play it, download it or open it in your browser, it doesn’t count. If it shipped ― even if it sucked ― it’s not vaporware. Software stuck in a never-ending, pre-release, beta-testing stage can be considered vaporware. Likewise hardware prototypes. It may exist in some company’s lab or trotted out at trade shows, but it’s vaporware until it hits store shelves.
Then, within the very article, they state: (last sentence the kicker) But it’s also been stuck in 1.x limbo for years. Lead developer Allan Odgaard got so tired of answering the barrage of questions about TextMate 2’s release ― including from those wondering if it would ever arrive ― that he broke months of silence by posting a long sob story on his blog titled, “Working on It.” [1]
He claimed version 2 is operational, but that it is “lacking the spit and polish of a finished app.” He also refused to give a release date.
[1] Link to "Working on it" http://blog.macromates.com/2009/working-on-it/
That rule, "Must have been promised to ship during 2009"; I do not believe such a promise was made. The very rule removes TM as a candidate.
Rule #2, did I miss a PR post somewhere? I really hope I'm not wrong about this. I'm on this list, I've got RSS feeds to every source I know. I suspect I'm not missing anything.
Allan always seems careful; it's an inside joke on what a "no no" it is to ask about TM2 status on the mailing list. You can get away with a little trolling by asking about upgrade coats, but even that has been stated to be zero upgrade cost.
The "sob story" Wired points to, in all reality was inspiring news to me. Unfortuneately, it was not realized. I'm not talking about a V.2 release, but mention of more transparency, a helper to write update posts and other user informative posts was good news. Unfortunrately, that never happened. A bit of a bummer, but is also non related to the release date, which from the Wired article, and what I know, it has always been "TM2 will ship when it ships".
I think Wired should retract this item from their list. It does not meet their own criteria of rules.
At least they listed the CrunchPad, but that will just give Arrington a chance to write a real "sob story". -- Scott (Sent from a mobile device)
Why sp much fuss about TM2 when there is a trivial workaround?
1) open /Applications/TextMate.app/Contents/Resources/Info.plist
2) change CFBundleShortVersionString = "1.5.9" to CFBundleShortVersionString = "2.0.1" (remember: never upgrade to 2.0.0, wait for the bugs to be ironed out)
3) do the same for CFBundleGetInfoString = "1.5.9 (1589)"
You might want to change also the 1589 version number, but I think that would be overkill.
Enjoy! Piero
On 23 Dec 2009, at 07:45, Piero D'Ancona wrote: Why sp much fuss about TM2 when there is a trivial workaround?
Brilliant! :-)
Wired has never actually adhered very strictly to their rules. Duke Nukem Forever had been near the top of the list for nearly a decade, and it had the same "It'll be out when it's done" schedule as TM2. No one ever complained that it was unfairly characterized as vapor. Allan himself wrote in Oct 2007:
"So put TM 2.0 up there with Duke Nukem Forever and be positively surprised the day it is released :)."
DNF is officially a dead project now. I'd had to see TM2 end up the same way.
It's been a full three years since Allan announced that TM2 would be Leopard-only, which led to a lot of speculation that it would be out sometime near Leopard's release. I don't know exactly when Allan started working on it, but it's clear that it's been in development for well over three years now. Sounds like it's a wonderful example of letting "perfect" become the enemy of "good".
I'd say it's perfectly fair to place TM2 in the "vaporware" category. Hopefully making Wired's list will shame Allan into finally releasing it before next year's list is published!
-- Steve King Sr. Software Engineer Arbor Networks +1 734 821 1461 www.arbornetworks.comhttp://www.arbornetworks.com/
According to King, Steven:
I'd say it's perfectly fair to place TM2 in the "vaporware" category. Hopefully making Wired's list will shame Allan into finally releasing it before next year's list is published!
Without going to such extremities as "shaming Allan", I'd love to participate to a alpha/beta phase...
On 23.12.2009, at 16:29, Ollivier Robert <roberto+textmate@keltia.freenix.fr
wrote:
According to King, Steven:
I'd say it's perfectly fair to place TM2 in the "vaporware" category. Hopefully making Wired's list will shame Allan into finally releasing it before next year's list is published!
Without going to such extremities as "shaming Allan", I'd love to participate to a alpha/beta phase...
Who doesn't on this list?
Niels
On 23 Dec 2009, at 16:17, King, Steven wrote:
[...] It's been a full three years since Allan announced that TM2 would be Leopard-only, which led to a lot of speculation that it would be out sometime near Leopard's release. [...]
Not sure if I have stated this before (I feel I have repeated this a hundred times, but probably in private emails, blog comments, etc.) but my “announcement” was not meant to announce TM2 it was meant to say “starting with 2.0 I will no longer care about backwards compatibility”. With 1.x I kept Panther compatibility until Apple made it very difficult for me to still do Panther builds (due to the introduction of universal builds), and the blog post was meant to say “this policy will change when I start on 2.0” motivated by me having just been to WWDC ’06 and seen what Leopard would provide.
Since I had mentioned this in less formal contexts and got a few negative comments about that, I figured I’d make a real announcement about this compatibility change to a) test the waters and b) be sure this message was clearly stated — no single line of code was written related to 2.0 when I wrote that blog post.
In retrospect it was a huge mistake to make that blog post, and the backlash sure hasn’t added to my eagerness in posting anything that can be seen as statements about the future.
I don't know exactly when Allan started working on it, but it's clear that it's been in development for well over three years now. Sounds like it's a wonderful example of letting "perfect" become the enemy of "good".
I did some work in 2007, but most of 2007 was really spent “relaxing” (and travelling) from having worked 3 years straight on 1.x with no vacation — the stuff I did produce in 2007 was insignificant.
So february 2008 is when I really started 2.0. It was a complete rewrite, and it’s more an example of how rewrites are bad and software is hard.
That said, while I probably underestimated how long time it takes to rewrite 1.x (one always do when estimating how long it takes to code something), I certainly do not regret this rewrite. What I do regret is that I didn’t figure out a way to have periodic updates to the 1.x line while I could isolate myself and work on 2.0 — but hindsight is 20/20.
I'd say it's perfectly fair to place TM2 in the "vaporware" category. Hopefully making Wired's list will shame Allan into finally releasing it before next year's list is published!
heh… yesterday I proudly told my brother in law that I am now so mainstream that TM has made it to Wired’s vaporware list, though he didn’t know what vaporware was ;)
On Dec 23, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Alex Ross wrote:
On Dec 23, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
heh… yesterday I proudly told my brother in law that I am now so mainstream that TM has made it to Wired’s vaporware list, though he didn’t know what vaporware was ;)
“Congratulations” was my first thought…
Congratulations indeed. Nothing like allowing a product to founder, while the competition catches up, and surpasses. I remember when TM outshone by far the Xcode editor. That hasn't been the case now for a good long time. Same for other editors. I still use it, even with all of it's flaws, but only for a replacement for mvim.
I understand software is hard; I've written a few million lines of code in my time. I also understand how easy it is to get in over your head. A particular company I worked for known best for internet search starts many of it's apps as small, single programmer projects. Then they catch on like wildfire, and the company takes them over, and makes them capable of the larger attention base. And they have great problems at this. It is very difficult to take a small app that is popular, and turn it into a bigger app that is just as popular. Especially with inadequate development resources.
So, yes, TM is still very popular with the cult that use it. But I'll tell ya what: at that afore mentioned company the majority of non-Java developers insist that emacs is still the best out there. Draw your own conclusions.
I have not taken much time to investigate this but so far I have been unable to find anything that feels as natural as TextMate. Is there another editor that has these features:
1. Snippets with place holders that you can tab through 2. The equivalent of TextMate commands 3. An equivilent of the cmd-T go to file command 4. The ability to make an ad-hoc project by opening a folder on the command line 5. An equivilent of the cmd-shift-T go to symbol command 6. Nested syntax highlighting (for example the ability to intermingle javascript, php, html, css in one file and have them all highlighted correctly)
These seem like pretty basic features at this point but they are the one's that really draw me to TextMate. With TextMate 2 taking so long I have looked around to see if another editor has emerged with the same usability and I just haven't found anything.
Can any other editor do all these things?
Thanks,
Rick
On Jan 1, 2010, at 8:48 AM, Timothy Reaves wrote:
On Dec 23, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Alex Ross wrote:
On Dec 23, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
heh… yesterday I proudly told my brother in law that I am now so mainstream that TM has made it to Wired’s vaporware list, though he didn’t know what vaporware was ;)
“Congratulations” was my first thought…
Congratulations indeed. Nothing like allowing a product to founder, while the competition catches up, and surpasses. I remember when TM outshone by far the Xcode editor. That hasn't been the case now for a good long time. Same for other editors. I still use it, even with all of it's flaws, but only for a replacement for mvim.
I understand software is hard; I've written a few million lines of code in my time. I also understand how easy it is to get in over your head. A particular company I worked for known best for internet search starts many of it's apps as small, single programmer projects. Then they catch on like wildfire, and the company takes them over, and makes them capable of the larger attention base. And they have great problems at this. It is very difficult to take a small app that is popular, and turn it into a bigger app that is just as popular. Especially with inadequate development resources.
So, yes, TM is still very popular with the cult that use it. But I'll tell ya what: at that afore mentioned company the majority of non-Java developers insist that emacs is still the best out there. Draw your own conclusions.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Perhaps jEdit, or Eclipse in General. PSPad is probably the best free text editor for Windows.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Rick Gigger rick@alpinenetworking.comwrote:
I have not taken much time to investigate this but so far I have been unable to find anything that feels as natural as TextMate. Is there another editor that has these features:
- Snippets with place holders that you can tab through
- The equivalent of TextMate commands
- An equivilent of the cmd-T go to file command
- The ability to make an ad-hoc project by opening a folder on the command
line 5. An equivilent of the cmd-shift-T go to symbol command 6. Nested syntax highlighting (for example the ability to intermingle javascript, php, html, css in one file and have them all highlighted correctly)
These seem like pretty basic features at this point but they are the one's that really draw me to TextMate. With TextMate 2 taking so long I have looked around to see if another editor has emerged with the same usability and I just haven't found anything.
Can any other editor do all these things?
Thanks,
Rick
On Jan 1, 2010, at 8:48 AM, Timothy Reaves wrote:
On Dec 23, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Alex Ross wrote:
On Dec 23, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
heh… yesterday I proudly told my brother in law that I am now so
mainstream that TM has made it to Wired’s vaporware list, though he didn’t know what vaporware was ;)
“Congratulations” was my first thought…
Congratulations indeed. Nothing like allowing a product tofounder, while the competition catches up, and surpasses. I remember when TM outshone by far the Xcode editor. That hasn't been the case now for a good long time. Same for other editors. I still use it, even with all of it's flaws, but only for a replacement for mvim.
I understand software is hard; I've written a few million lines ofcode in my time. I also understand how easy it is to get in over your head. A particular company I worked for known best for internet search starts many of it's apps as small, single programmer projects. Then they catch on like wildfire, and the company takes them over, and makes them capable of the larger attention base. And they have great problems at this. It is very difficult to take a small app that is popular, and turn it into a bigger app that is just as popular. Especially with inadequate development resources.
So, yes, TM is still very popular with the cult that use it. ButI'll tell ya what: at that afore mentioned company the majority of non-Java developers insist that emacs is still the best out there. Draw your own conclusions.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not really actively trying to move away from TextMate though. I was responding mostly to this comment: "Nothing like allowing a product to founder, while the competition catches up, and surpasses." I was mostly just casting doubt on the idea that there were all of these other editors out there that had not only caught up to TextMate but surpassed. I'm sure if Eclipse is your thing then it has probably always been superior to TextMate. I loathe Eclipse and find it to be a huge bloated mess. If there was an editor that had caught up with TextMate and surpassed it in all the areas that are important to me then I would take a look at it but I don't think that anything actually has. As such I will be waiting patiently to dish out some money for TM2 when it is released.
I'm not saying I like it in the vaporware awards, I'm just contesting that even this enormous amount of time has been enough for "the competition" to make an editor that I would prefer over TextMate.
Thanks you again for your suggestions though, I am on a Mac but it would be nice for my Windows using colleagues to have the same capabilities that I enjoy in TextMate. Alas as far as I can tell there isn't anything yet on windows that fulfills these requirements.
Thanks,
Rick
On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:33 PM, Brad Hutchins wrote:
Perhaps jEdit, or Eclipse in General. PSPad is probably the best free text editor for Windows.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Rick Gigger rick@alpinenetworking.com wrote: I have not taken much time to investigate this but so far I have been unable to find anything that feels as natural as TextMate. Is there another editor that has these features:
- Snippets with place holders that you can tab through
- The equivalent of TextMate commands
- An equivilent of the cmd-T go to file command
- The ability to make an ad-hoc project by opening a folder on the command line
- An equivilent of the cmd-shift-T go to symbol command
- Nested syntax highlighting (for example the ability to intermingle javascript, php, html, css in one file and have them all highlighted correctly)
These seem like pretty basic features at this point but they are the one's that really draw me to TextMate. With TextMate 2 taking so long I have looked around to see if another editor has emerged with the same usability and I just haven't found anything.
Can any other editor do all these things?
Thanks,
Rick
On Jan 1, 2010, at 8:48 AM, Timothy Reaves wrote:
On Dec 23, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Alex Ross wrote:
On Dec 23, 2009, at 7:45 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
heh… yesterday I proudly told my brother in law that I am now so mainstream that TM has made it to Wired’s vaporware list, though he didn’t know what vaporware was ;)
“Congratulations” was my first thought…
Congratulations indeed. Nothing like allowing a product to founder, while the competition catches up, and surpasses. I remember when TM outshone by far the Xcode editor. That hasn't been the case now for a good long time. Same for other editors. I still use it, even with all of it's flaws, but only for a replacement for mvim. I understand software is hard; I've written a few million lines of code in my time. I also understand how easy it is to get in over your head. A particular company I worked for known best for internet search starts many of it's apps as small, single programmer projects. Then they catch on like wildfire, and the company takes them over, and makes them capable of the larger attention base. And they have great problems at this. It is very difficult to take a small app that is popular, and turn it into a bigger app that is just as popular. Especially with inadequate development resources. So, yes, TM is still very popular with the cult that use it. But I'll tell ya what: at that afore mentioned company the majority of non-Java developers insist that emacs is still the best out there. Draw your own conclusions.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On Jan 5, 2010, at 6:46 PM, Rick Gigger wrote:
I'm sure if Eclipse is your thing then it has probably always been superior to TextMate. I loathe Eclipse and find it to be a huge bloated mess.
Eclipse. Yeesh.
Just because it runs on your platform doesn’t mean it’s suitable for daily use. In fact, I’ve never seen anything written in Java that is. Slow, ugly, and doesn’t integrate well with the rest of the system at all (and I don’t just mean OS X).
I thought the “surpassed” comment was odd, too. That’s news to me.
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Alex Ross -
Allan Odgaard -
Brad Hutchins -
King, Steven -
Niels Kobschaetzki -
Ollivier Robert -
Piero D'Ancona -
Rick Gigger -
Rob McBroom -
Scott Haneda -
Timothy Reaves