OK, so we know there are plenty of people here that would like to be able to do everything with the keyboard so they have to reach over to the mouse as little as possible.
Me, I confess I use the mouse ALL the time:
- Moving more than 2 lines? Use the mouse... - Making ANY kind of selection? Use the mouse... - Browse through code? Use the mouse... ...
I never could get the hang of using a gazillion shortcuts to make the cursor fly, and I have been programming professionally (well, at least making a living of it) for 25 years.
So am I really alone, or are there others out there like me? If yes, please speak up! I think we need to join and speak up, so that Alan knows we exist and stops catering exclusively to the "keyboard only" users!
My name is Gerd, and I like to use the mouse!
Gerd Knops wrote:
So am I really alone, or are there others out there like me? If yes, please speak up! I think we need to join and speak up, so that Alan knows we exist and stops catering exclusively to the "keyboard only" users!
My name is Gerd, and I like to use the mouse!
I like the mouse, actually I like my trackball and its scrollwheel.
I'm also switching back and forth between OSX and WinXP and the keyboard shortcuts don't tally.
switching between ctrl and alt for editing is the trickiest challenge.
ctrl-V, C and X on winXP for paste, copy and cut translate to alt(my command key)-V, C and X on OS X
learning the keyboard shortcuts using a IBM keyboard on OS X is a nightmare, trust me!
some of the combinations are very uncomfortable.
I'm hoping to switch to an Intel Mac sometime soon, so maybe then I'll be more interested in Keyboarding, but I still suspect that I'll *need* my mouse.
;o)
On Apr 13, 2007, at 10:24 AM, Tony Crockford wrote:
learning the keyboard shortcuts using a IBM keyboard on OS X is a nightmare, trust me!
Swap your keys in the Keyboard prefpane. Then use parallels and set the preference to swap control and command keys.
Might take a bit to get used to, but at least it's more consistent.
thomas Aylott — subtleGradient — CrazyEgg — sixteenColors
Thomas Aylott (subtleGradient) wrote:
On Apr 13, 2007, at 10:24 AM, Tony Crockford wrote:
learning the keyboard shortcuts using a IBM keyboard on OS X is a nightmare, trust me!
Swap your keys in the Keyboard prefpane. Then use parallels and set the preference to swap control and command keys.
Might take a bit to get used to, but at least it's more consistent.
I hope to one day but right now I'm using a Mac Mini (non-intel) four screens and Synergy2 [1] to flit between OSX, WinXP and Kubuntu on a single keyboard connected to the PC.
Whilst I can remap the keyboards on each OS, it's only the WinXP keys that work. (Synergy passes key code and mouse position references I think). hard to explain, but I got into a muddle when I tried to swap the winXP keymap and the OSX one with DoubleCommand - right now on OSX my command key is an option key and my option key is a command key so that the alt key on the keyboard is in the place where the command key would be on a Mac (and so when I KVM with a hardware switch the keys don't move...)
(Nightmare unresolved!)
I was waiting for Leopard before buying a Mac Pro to run everything on with parallels, and now that plan is up for review...
;)
[1] http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ Synergy
Tony Crockford wrote:
I'm also switching back and forth between OSX and WinXP and the keyboard shortcuts don't tally.
switching between ctrl and alt for editing is the trickiest challenge.
ctrl-V, C and X on winXP for paste, copy and cut translate to alt(my command key)-V, C and X on OS X
Yeah, it's really a shame that Microsoft decided to copy Apple's (very well thought-out) keyboard shortcuts, but then change them to use the control key as a modifier. It's not only much harder to type (on a default keyboard layout), but also was already in use for other things. And of course, in their conflicting efforts to both copy windows, and stay in the tradition of unix shortcuts, Linux apps have ended up with a horribly confusing mishmash, so that some apps use meta-x, some use ctrl-x, and others use ctrl-shift-x for "cut". This stuff really drives me batty whenever I'm forced to use Windows or Linux.
learning the keyboard shortcuts using a IBM keyboard on OS X is a nightmare, trust me!
Not really. In fact, I use a 1989 IBM keyboard for most of my typing on my powerbook.
The trick is remapping the keys so that ⌘ is next to the space bar, ⌃ is next to the A key, and ⌥ is either below and between shift and z, or else (on a 101 key keyboard) in the corner.
-Jacob
On Apr 13, 2007, at 10:10 AM, Gerd Knops wrote:
OK, so we know there are plenty of people here that would like to be able to do everything with the keyboard so they have to reach over to the mouse as little as possible.
Me, I confess I use the mouse ALL the time:
- Moving more than 2 lines? Use the mouse...
- Making ANY kind of selection? Use the mouse...
- Browse through code? Use the mouse...
...
I never could get the hang of using a gazillion shortcuts to make the cursor fly, and I have been programming professionally (well, at least making a living of it) for 25 years.
So am I really alone, or are there others out there like me? If yes, please speak up! I think we need to join and speak up, so that Alan knows we exist and stops catering exclusively to the "keyboard only" users!
My name is Gerd, and I like to use the mouse!
I keep a trackball in my left hand and a 13 button mouse in my right.
Almost all of my navigation and selections are made with the mouse. I have bound balance jr and select current scope to 3 of the buttons on my mouse.
It used to REALLY annoy me that I couldn't just double click to select things properly, but I have mostly gotten around that with Balance Jr. Thanks for opening that wound :'(
I really want to have more mouse related stuff. Better mouse & keyboard selections and navigating non-word characters. Custom toolbars and button bars. Be able to add stuff to the right click menu. etc...
I used to use the trackpad in my PowerBook a lot too. Mostly for scrolling.
So, yes. My mouse and trackball are extremely important to me.
thomas Aylott — subtleGradient — CrazyEgg — sixteenColors
All right, I'll bite.
As a long time user of an "alternate OS and development editor" before switching to the Mac 7 years ago, I love the power and speed of doing as much as possible with only a keyboard. I've yet to find an editor in the Mac Universe that holds up to the same rush that I got from developing with that editor. For me it was like making music with a piano.
I think it partly depends on how one edits and on how one thinks while writing code but I find doing things with a mouse to be inherently slow and it interrupts my train of thought while I'm writing.
Of course anything that gets me away from my computer and onto my bike or into my running shoes quicker gets my vote.
My name is Ed and I like to use the keyboard! ;-)
P.S. No mouse was hurt or used while sending this.
On 4/13/07 10:10 AM, "Gerd Knops" gerti-textmate@bitart.com wrote:
OK, so we know there are plenty of people here that would like to be able to do everything with the keyboard so they have to reach over to the mouse as little as possible.
Me, I confess I use the mouse ALL the time:
- Moving more than 2 lines? Use the mouse...
- Making ANY kind of selection? Use the mouse...
- Browse through code? Use the mouse...
...
I never could get the hang of using a gazillion shortcuts to make the cursor fly, and I have been programming professionally (well, at least making a living of it) for 25 years.
So am I really alone, or are there others out there like me? If yes, please speak up! I think we need to join and speak up, so that Alan knows we exist and stops catering exclusively to the "keyboard only" users!
My name is Gerd, and I like to use the mouse!
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 13. Apr 2007, at 16:10, Gerd Knops wrote:
[...] If yes, please speak up! I think we need to join and speak up, so that Alan knows we exist and stops catering exclusively to the "keyboard only" users!
There is no need to speak up, I know there are people who like to use the mouse, like I know there are people who can’t live without splitting the window buffer, who need to do a lot of project/folder searching, who work with remote projects, who does a lot of undo, who needs to input non-Western characters, who needs to print their source code (in color), who needs better SCM integration, etc. -- yes, surprisingly I am intimately aware of the shortcomings of my own software ;)
Sure, your gripes might be small things in isolation, but with more than 50,000 users, these things add up, and I have gripes myself that I also want to address, for example I really want to get 2.0 to a releasable state, rather than address things in the 1.x code base (and 2.0 will fix *a lot* of peoples gripes, plus introduce lots of cool new stuff).
Be patient and remember that good things come to those who wait :)
On Apr 13, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
On 13. Apr 2007, at 16:10, Gerd Knops wrote:
[...] If yes, please speak up! I think we need to join and speak up, so that Alan knows we exist and stops catering exclusively to the "keyboard only" users!
There is no need to speak up, I know there are people who like to use the mouse, like I know there are people who can’t live without splitting the window buffer, who need to do a lot of project/folder searching, who work with remote projects, who does a lot of undo, who needs to input non-Western characters, who needs to print their source code (in color), who needs better SCM integration, etc. -- yes, surprisingly I am intimately aware of the shortcomings of my own software ;)
Sure, your gripes might be small things in isolation, but with more than 50,000 users, these things add up, and I have gripes myself that I also want to address, for example I really want to get 2.0 to a releasable state, rather than address things in the 1.x code base (and 2.0 will fix *a lot* of peoples gripes, plus introduce lots of cool new stuff).
Be patient and remember that good things come to those who wait :)
Of course we're talking about 2.0+ Everyone on this mailing list knows that 1.x will never be upgraded. If they didn't, they do now.
We are all happy to wait, but it's still fun to complain ;)
thomas Aylott — subtleGradient — CrazyEgg — sixteenColors
On Apr 13, 2007, at 8:04 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Sure, your gripes might be small things in isolation, but with more than 50,000 users, these things add up, and I have gripes myself that I also want to address, for example I really want to get 2.0 to a releasable state, rather than address things in the 1.x code base (and 2.0 will fix *a lot* of peoples gripes, plus introduce lots of cool new stuff).
Be patient and remember that good things come to those who wait :)
Thanks for the info! I'm willing to wait; I'm just wondering how long the wait will be now that Leopard has been pushed back to October. Are you also pushing back TextMate to October (or later) because of Leopard dependencies? If so, I'm curious what those dependencies are. You're not integrating CoreAnimation into TextMate, are you?
Trevor
On 13. Apr 2007, at 20:04, Trevor Harmon wrote:
Thanks for the info! I'm willing to wait; I'm just wondering how long the wait will be now that Leopard has been pushed back to October. Are you also pushing back TextMate to October (or later) because of Leopard dependencies?
TextMate 2.0 has only been said to be ready *after* Leopard -- not “at the same time as Leopard”.
If so, I'm curious what those dependencies are. You're not integrating CoreAnimation into TextMate, are you?
I am under NDA so I can’t go into details, I give a few reasons here though for Leopard only: http://macromates.com/blog/archives/ 2006/11/09/20-will-require-leopard/
On Apr 13, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Trevor Harmon wrote:
You're not integrating CoreAnimation into TextMate, are you?
I'm betting the new CoreText makes the list. ;)
I don't recall seeing a release date from Allan other that "after Leopard," so I don't really think he needs to "push back" anything.
He has stated that TM 2.0 will be Leopard only.
James Edward Gray II
On Apr 13, 2007, at 2:10 PM, James Edward Gray II wrote:
On Apr 13, 2007, at 1:04 PM, Trevor Harmon wrote:
You're not integrating CoreAnimation into TextMate, are you?
I'm betting the new CoreText makes the list. ;)
I don't recall seeing a release date from Allan other that "after Leopard," so I don't really think he needs to "push back" anything.
He has stated that TM 2.0 will be Leopard only.
James Edward Gray II
I had also gotten the impression that TextMate was going to be released around the same time as Leopard. Allan kindly set the matter strait a while ago to my great sadness :'(
But now I have come to terms with it and I think it would be unwise for him to set a timeline at this point. It's really important that TM2 be way ultra-hip. I'd like Allan to have plenty of time to work on it.
In the meantime, once Leopard is released, I'm planning on releasing updated Leopard only nib replacements for the TextMate UI. Refreshing the 1.5 UI will freshen it up enough to survive until the 2.0 alphas start rolling in.
These are exciting times!
thomas Aylott — subtleGradient — CrazyEgg — sixteenColors
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:04:08 +0100, Allan Odgaard throw-away-1@macromates.com wrote:
Sure, your gripes might be small things in isolation, but with more than 50,000 users, these things add up, and I have gripes myself that I also want to address, for example I really want to get 2.0 to a releasable state, rather than address things in the 1.x code base (and 2.0 will fix *a lot* of peoples gripes, plus introduce lots of cool new stuff).
Be patient and remember that good things come to those who wait :)
Allan, can't you make TM2 release earlier?
Could TM2 be usable with Leopard-only features disabled or ported from TM1?
I know you don't like to spend time on TM1 anymore, but since the demand is high and next release isn't coming soon, could you reconsider it?
Pretty please :)
no TextMate 2.0 Will Require Leopard
thomas Aylott — subtleGradient — CrazyEgg — sixteenColors
On Apr 13, 2007, at 7:15 PM, porneL wrote:
Allan, can't you make TM2 release earlier?
Could TM2 be usable with Leopard-only features disabled or ported from TM1?
On 14. Apr 2007, at 01:15, porneL wrote:
Allan, can't you make TM2 release earlier?
Could TM2 be usable with Leopard-only features disabled or ported from TM1?
I know you don't like to spend time on TM1 anymore, but since the demand is high and next release isn't coming soon, could you reconsider it?
There are still enough things to do on TM to keep me busy for several years. It’s not like I’ll sit idle by my computer and wait for you guys to get Leopard, so that I can release it ;)
Also, as for not requiring Leopard: not only are there new frameworks in Leopard, there is a new (version of the) language I use, a new Interface Builder (producing non-compatible nibs), etc.
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Allan Odgaard -
Ed Wong -
Gerd Knops -
Jacob Rus -
James Edward Gray II -
porneL -
Thomas Aylott (subtleGradient) -
Tony Crockford -
Trevor Harmon