I've been with TM since the beginning (I wrote the first Perl and LaTeX bundles). I think a lot of the frustration with TM2 comes out of our affection for TM1 and wanting *Textmate* to be the platform that keeps evolving and takes us all into the next decade.
Let me gently suggest that pleading with Allan about communication or productivity won't have much constructive effect. When you are blocked on a difficult project, does having people nag you make you more productive?
The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives. If TM2 comes out, that will be the nicest present. So what alternatives are there?
The most hopeful alternative I've seen is Kod http://kodapp.com/. Naturally, Kod is having a little developmental stall, but it's open-source and could be worked on by interested developers.
BBEdit and UltraEdit are closed source without channels for community contributions, but they are under active development.
Smultron seems interesting, but I don't know much about it.
Alpha X and Pepper seem dead.
So... anyone up for some Kod programming? Otherwise, we may have to settle for TM1 for now...
best wishes, Eric
--
Eric Hsu, Associate Professor of Mathematics
Director, Center for Science and Math Education
San Francisco State University
On Apr 26, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Apricot AN wrote:
The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives. If TM2 comes out, that will be the nicest present.
One problem is that without a clear direction folks are unwilling to sink a lot of time into enhancing TextMate's bundles and plugins (I know I am, though I did break down and improved git support in projectplus somewhat).
TextMate has no competition as far as I am concerned, but it could be so much better!
So what alternatives are there?
The most hopeful alternative I've seen is Kod http://kodapp.com/. Naturally, Kod is having a little developmental stall, but it's open-source and could be worked on by interested developers.
I had a look a while back, and as is I don't think it has the bones to come close to TextMate, never mind surpass it. Hope they prove me wrong!
For Objective-C AppCode [1] is a nice effort, but if I could convince myself to live with a Java-based editor I'd probably go back to jEdit [2] which I used before TextMate. And Xcode4 just has me wonder what planet it's developers live on.
One of the reasons I am disappointed with Allan's lack of communication is this: part of what made TextMate a success (and quite lucrative for Allan) were (and are) all the (free) community contributions (a big thank you to all!). I have no problem with that, I got a great tool out of it. But to leave all the people that spent many hours of their time enhancing and improving TextMate hanging like this, that is disappointing.
Gerd
[1]: http://www.jetbrains.com/objc/ [2]: http://www.jedit.org/
BBEdit and UltraEdit are closed source without channels for community contributions, but they are under active development.
Smultron seems interesting, but I don't know much about it.
Alpha X and Pepper seem dead.
So... anyone up for some Kod programming? Otherwise, we may have to settle for TM1 for now...
best wishes, Eric
-- Eric Hsu, Associate Professor of Mathematics Director, Center for Science and Math Education San Francisco State University http://math.sfsu.edu/hsu
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Apricot AN wrote:
The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives. If TM2 comes out, that will be the nicest present. So what alternatives are there?
You mentioned BBEdit. While TM positioned itself as the anti-BBEdit very early on, it's worth noting that BBEdit hasn't been standing still, and it's actually pretty extensible -- it's just that to do most of the neat stuff with it you need AppleScript. BBEdit can handle huge files with ease, though, and does a better job when it comes to handling 20+ files open at once than anything else I've seen.
The problem with most of the other alternatives out there is that they're just Not There Yet, if you get the meaning. The previously-mentioned Kod has some really interesting design ideas but it's a long way from being usable. It's unique for being very modern and open source, though. Others I'd really keep my eyes on --
Sublime Text 2: currently in alpha, but based on an existing Windows program that already has a bit of a community around it. Openly inspired by TextMate, and compatible with TM color schemes and some bundle components (snippets, .tmPreferences and .tmLanguages files).
Coda: Panic's "one-window" web development system also has a plugin system and some TextMate compatibility, which I'm not sure people know about. Panic has said that they're working full steam on version 2.0, so even if version 1.x isn't your cup of tea (it's not mine), big changes are ahead.
Espresso: MacRabbit's competitor to Coda is kind of wonky right now, but it's very extensible in a fashion that's similar (albeit more convoluted) than TM's bundles. I suspect it has a lot of power under the hood that isn't being exploited yet. Also like Coda, it's a program I haven't warmed to but am expecting possibly big things in its version 2 release.
...and, of course, I'm expecting possibly big things in TextMate's version 2 release. Lest anyone get *too* much on my case for recommending competitors: despite a few serious attempts to move to BBEdit or MacVim, I keep coming back to TM. It just seems prudent to hedge my bets at this point. :)
Kod can't even display its own About box, let alone open a text file and display its contents. Jerry
You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back and read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the alternative suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do) and the obvious point keeps being missed… Why are you looking for an alternative to something that does what you want in the first place?
Yes, yes, news of TM2 would all make us feel like we're not using abandonware (though maintenance releases do that too) but the reality is for as long as TM1 works on whatever OS Apple throws at us then I am happy to continue using TM1.
I've been using TextMate for what… 5 years give or take? I got my money's worth, Allan owes me nothing. And if TM1 stopped working tomorrow I'd feel hard pressed to knock on Allan's door and demand he do something about it. I'd move on. It would suck to do so but Allan is not some corporation that will live on with or without him (yes technically MacroMates is but I suspect his pride would stop him from letting that go); if Allan is gone, so too is TextMate, so be it.
I am excited to see what TM2 has to offer but until then TM1 has no challengers to temp me to leave. My customer satisfaction hinges on this version working, the version I paid for, not whether it's developer keeps me updated on what they're doing on the next version.
And let's face it, if Duke Nukem Forever can finally post a release date (June 24) then there is hope yet for TextMate 2.
Adam Merrifield
On Apr 26, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
Apricot AN wrote:
The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives. If TM2 comes out, that will be the nicest present. So what alternatives are there?
You mentioned BBEdit. While TM positioned itself as the anti-BBEdit very early on, it's worth noting that BBEdit hasn't been standing still, and it's actually pretty extensible -- it's just that to do most of the neat stuff with it you need AppleScript. BBEdit can handle huge files with ease, though, and does a better job when it comes to handling 20+ files open at once than anything else I've seen.
The problem with most of the other alternatives out there is that they're just Not There Yet, if you get the meaning. The previously-mentioned Kod has some really interesting design ideas but it's a long way from being usable. It's unique for being very modern and open source, though. Others I'd really keep my eyes on --
Sublime Text 2: currently in alpha, but based on an existing Windows program that already has a bit of a community around it. Openly inspired by TextMate, and compatible with TM color schemes and some bundle components (snippets, .tmPreferences and .tmLanguages files).
Coda: Panic's "one-window" web development system also has a plugin system and some TextMate compatibility, which I'm not sure people know about. Panic has said that they're working full steam on version 2.0, so even if version 1.x isn't your cup of tea (it's not mine), big changes are ahead.
Espresso: MacRabbit's competitor to Coda is kind of wonky right now, but it's very extensible in a fashion that's similar (albeit more convoluted) than TM's bundles. I suspect it has a lot of power under the hood that isn't being exploited yet. Also like Coda, it's a program I haven't warmed to but am expecting possibly big things in its version 2 release.
...and, of course, I'm expecting possibly big things in TextMate's version 2 release. Lest anyone get *too* much on my case for recommending competitors: despite a few serious attempts to move to BBEdit or MacVim, I keep coming back to TM. It just seems prudent to hedge my bets at this point. :)
-- Watts Martin layotl@gmail.com
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On 27 Apr 2011, at 12:20, Merrifield Adam wrote:
You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back and read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the alternative suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do) and the obvious point keeps being missed… Why are you looking for an alternative to something that does what you want in the first place?
Yes, yes, news of TM2 would all make us feel like we're not using abandonware (though maintenance releases do that too) but the reality is for as long as TM1 works on whatever OS Apple throws at us then I am happy to continue using TM1.
My feelings too, well said.
Justin Catterall wrote:
You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back and read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the alternative suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do) and the obvious point keeps being missed… Why are you looking for an
alternative to
something that does what you want in the first place?
Because TextMate doesn't do everything that I want. I'll spare everyone from the bullet point list, but there are things (IMO) that other editors do better. There are also things that TM does better. The question is where the tipping point is, and that's a personal choice.
Someone else here put this better than I'm about to rephrase it, but most people on this list don't *want* to switch away from TextMate. What we want is for TextMate to keep evolving with us. Editors like Vim and Emacs and BBEdit have stayed in widespread use because they *do* evolve.
But if TextMate stays in one place and other editors don't, then for more and more people the tipping point is going to go in the other direction. And frankly, ongoing support for a text editor matters in a way that ongoing support for Duke Nukem doesn't.
No, TextMate users aren't entitled to anything other than the program we paid for. We get that (or at least most of us do). But "is this program still an ongoing concern" matters. Not because we imagine that TextMate 1.x will suddenly stop working--goodness knows you can keep using programs long after they're theoretically obsolete--but because some of those editors that do things that TextMate doesn't do may, in future releases, also start doing what TextMate does that keeps us using it. And if by that point TextMate hasn't started doing what *they* do, then we have to evaluate whether the tipping point has moved.
I understand there's an argument to be made for not talking about the competition on the TextMate list, and if that raises people's hackles, I'm sorry. But look at it this way: if we understand what it is that *is* attractive about some of the other players, then maybe TextMate will, through future releases or bundles, move in those directions.
On 27 Apr 2011, at 17:39, Watts Martin wrote:
Justin Catterall wrote:
You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat
back and
read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the
alternative
suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do)
and the
obvious point keeps being missed… Why are you looking for an
alternative to
something that does what you want in the first place?
I didn't write that. Please check your attribution before posting.
Justin Catterall said: "I didn't write that."
...you sure didn't! Sorry about that. (I think I must have replied to a message with that quote extract in it, rather than the original.)
If it matters to anyone, I wrote that.
Adam Merrifield
On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
Justin Catterall said: "I didn't write that."
...you sure didn't! Sorry about that. (I think I must have replied to a message with that quote extract in it, rather than the original.) _______________________________________________ textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
I'm not sure why Allan doesn't want us to see TM2 when it's complete enough to be dogfooded. After 2-3 OS cycles worth of development by a very capable developer, I can't imagine that it's in a very raw state...
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Merrifield Adam macagp@gmail.com wrote:
If it matters to anyone, I wrote that.
Adam Merrifield
On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
Justin Catterall said: "I didn't write that."
...you sure didn't! Sorry about that. (I think I must have replied to a
message with that quote extract in it, rather than the original.)
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
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On Apr 28, 2011, at 5:54 PM, Neil wrote:
I'm not sure why Allan doesn't want us to see TM2 when it's complete enough to be dogfooded. After 2-3 OS cycles worth of development by a very capable developer, I can't imagine that it's in a very raw state...
His comments make it sound like a lot of the features are there, but performance isn’t good enough yet. My theory is that he’s just going to sit on it until hardware gets fast enough to make it look good. :)
Hi,
I've hesitated to jump in to what should be a non-discussion; however, I think the meta-issue here - which is one of civility - is of great importance.
A question was asked: i.e., would Allan please provide an honest assessment of TM2's state? The question was asked of Allan, not of anyone else. It was asked in a respectful fashion. Though it was a question of Allan it was asked in a public forum; however, that was appropriate in this case as the answer to the question is of broad and general interest. In summary, I see nothing wrong with the question itself, or how it was asked, or where it was asked.
Some of the responses have, on the other hand, been --- to my mind --- quite inappropriate. Those fall into a couple of categories: * Some have questioned the propriety of asking the question. Indeed, some have questioned the propriety of asking any question at all. * Some have questioned why anyone would care what the answer was. * Some have suggested that wanting more than what exists is (somehow) beyond the natural order of things. * Some have been just plane rude.
There should be no question at all about the propriety of asking a civil question in a civil fashion. Gerd should not be called on the carpet for asking the question, nor should he be asked to explain or defend himself, or "justify" his need to ask the question.
Similarly, Allan can choose to respond publicly, or privately, or via a proxy, or not at all. His choice.
It seems to me that's enough: i.e., there is no need for anyone else to chime in unless they can provide something helpful or relevant. Anything more - in particular, responses that castigate Gerd or Allan - don't advance anyone's interest: not Gerd's, not Allan's, and certainly not the interest of TextMate or the TextMate community.
So, I conclude with a plea: let's all try to make our contributions to this discussion, and all discussions we take part in - online or offline, remotely or in person - positive and constructive.
Sam
On Apr 27, 2011, at 11:23 AM, Justin Catterall wrote:
On 27 Apr 2011, at 12:20, Merrifield Adam wrote:
You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back and read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the alternative suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do) and the obvious point keeps being missed… Why are you looking for an alternative to something that does what you want in the first place?
Yes, yes, news of TM2 would all make us feel like we're not using abandonware (though maintenance releases do that too) but the reality is for as long as TM1 works on whatever OS Apple throws at us then I am happy to continue using TM1.
My feelings too, well said.
-- Justin C, by the sea.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Lee Samuel Finn Professor, Dept Physics; Dept Astronomy & Astrophysics The Pennsylvania State University 104 Davey Laboratory University Park, PA 16802
On 27 April 2011 18:39, Lee Samuel Finn LSFinn@psu.edu wrote:
Hi,
I've hesitated to jump in to what should be a non-discussion; however, I think the meta-issue here - which is one of civility - is of great importance.
... snip ...
So, I conclude with a plea: let's all try to make our contributions to this discussion, and all discussions we take part in - online or offline, remotely or in person - positive and constructive.
Well, yeah. The only uncivility I've seen here is from those that castigate anyone having the audacity to wonder what's happening with TM2.
Sure, Allan has stated that it will be ready when it's ready. And I don't deny him the rights to twiddle his thumbs and stare at his navel, far from it. But it has been *a long time now* and at least some kind of life sign would be appreciated, even if it is "it will take three more years at least".
I really don't understand why some thinks *the question* can never be asked. What do you think will happen? Allan will read it and decide he'll never code on TextMate again? I'm sure he has thicker skin than that.
On 27 April 2011 00:15, Apricot AN apricotan@gmail.com wrote:
The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives. If TM2 comes out, that will be the nicest present. So what alternatives are there?
I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editor http://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
Jerry
Everyone is failing to miss a major selling point here.
By NOT having Textmate 2 you essentially have a macguffin in your own personal life to blame essentially all of your failures on.
Can't meet your deadline? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Productivity Issues? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Dog leave a puddle of sick in your living room? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Offended someone on a mailing list made you sad? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
I think the developer is doing you all a favor!
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Jerry lanceboyle@qwest.net wrote:
On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
Jerry
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Lol
Adam Merrifield
On 2011-04-27, at 19:22, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
Everyone is failing to miss a major selling point here.
By NOT having Textmate 2 you essentially have a macguffin in your own personal life to blame essentially all of your failures on.
Can't meet your deadline? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Productivity Issues? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Dog leave a puddle of sick in your living room? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Offended someone on a mailing list made you sad? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
I think the developer is doing you all a favor!
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Jerry lanceboyle@qwest.net wrote:
On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
Jerry
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
TM2 has to be developed using TM2.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 27, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Adam Merrifield macagp@gmail.com wrote:
Lol
Adam Merrifield
On 2011-04-27, at 19:22, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
Everyone is failing to miss a major selling point here.
By NOT having Textmate 2 you essentially have a macguffin in your own personal life to blame essentially all of your failures on.
Can't meet your deadline? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Productivity Issues? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Dog leave a puddle of sick in your living room? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2. Offended someone on a mailing list made you sad? Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
I think the developer is doing you all a favor!
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Jerry lanceboyle@qwest.net wrote:
On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
Jerry
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
No, there is not exist any kind of option for unanchor windows, what I use instead is the split option into 2 areas inside de sublime text. Each of the splitted areas can hold various files open.
But, has I say, nothing compares to TM.
On 27 April 2011 23:35, Jerry lanceboyle@qwest.net wrote:
On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I
work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
Jerry
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Am 2011-04-27 um 01:15 schrieb Apricot AN:
Alpha X and Pepper seem dead.
I don’t know anything about Pepper, but AlphaX is clearly not dead. The following stems from the AlphaX Users list: --- Am 2011-05-07 um 12:25 schrieb Bernard Desgraupes:
Hi all,
in the process of preparing the upcoming (very soon, very soon, hold your breath) final official release of AlphaX 8.2, I have just uploaded a second release candidate for AlphaX. This is version 8.2rc2.
It contains the very last fixes and the implementation of headers in printouts as discussed recently (in order to have headers when printing documents, check the Print Header checkbox in the Printer panel of the Global Preferences).
Here is the URL to download the disk image: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/bdesgraupes/Downloads/AlphaX-8.2rc2.dmg (19,5 Mb)
Thank you for trying it and sending feedback. Please report any bug you encounter,
cheers,
Bernard
Here are the release notes: Features
- implemented headers with file name, date and page number in printouts. There is a new printHeader preference to control this feature
(the default value is 0).
Bug fixes
Fixed issue with sometimes failing activation of Latex Accents.
Minor fixes in Gnuplot mode. Added missing commentCharacters array.
Restored binding for 'displaymath' environment in TeX mode.
Added TeX mode in menu::setUserShortcutsForMenu calls.
Fixed bugs with svn branching and tagging in Alpha.
---
… with regards from Ladenburg:
-MWL-
On May 9, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Martin Wilhelm Leidig wrote:
Am 2011-04-27 um 01:15 schrieb Apricot AN:
Alpha X and Pepper seem dead.
I'm not sure what's dead and what's not but Sublime Text 2 is so not-dead that it has completely replaced TextMate for me and I couldn't be happier.
It's TextMate 2 but without all the vapor.
S
-
Adam Merrifield -
Apricot AN -
Gerd Knops -
Jerry -
John Vilsack -
Justin Catterall -
Lee Samuel Finn -
Martin Wilhelm Leidig -
Merrifield Adam
-
Neil -
Rob McBroom -
ssteinerX＠gmail.com -
Sven Axelsson -
Tiago Dias -
Watts Martin -
Yuhan Hao