22 Feb
2010
22 Feb
'10
8:19 p.m.
Greetings,
This is slightly off topic but I'm hoping some of the TextMate-Cocoa
people here could help me.
I'm learning Cocoa programming and I'm not interested in using Xcode
for my development. I prefer using Clang, Rake, Textmate, and
Interface Builder. I know Allan and company development Textmate using
Cmake instead of Xcode. I'm wondering how to run unit tests this way.
Every OCUnit app tutorial I see assumes you are using Xcode. Anyone
know how to set up unit tests manually via the command line? Once I
see how it is done I can set up a Rake target/tasks to handle it for
me.
Any other advice when developing Cocoa apps without Xcode?
Thanks in advance,
Jason C
22 Feb
22 Feb
9:02 p.m.
On Feb 22, 2010, at 2:19 PM, Jason Coffin wrote:
Greetings,
This is slightly off topic but I'm hoping some of the TextMate-Cocoa
people here could help me.
I'm learning Cocoa programming and I'm not interested in using Xcode
for my development. I prefer using Clang, Rake, Textmate, and
Interface Builder. I know Allan and company development Textmate using
Cmake instead of Xcode. I'm wondering how to run unit tests this way.
Every OCUnit app tutorial I see assumes you are using Xcode. Anyone
know how to set up unit tests manually via the command line? Once I
see how it is done I can set up a Rake target/tasks to handle it for
me.
Any other advice when developing Cocoa apps without Xcode?
I don't think that is a good idea for someone in the learning stage. I use
Xcode for project management, debugger and the built-in Clang, and TextMate for everything
else. Which basically means I am using Xcode for maybe a couple minutes a day on average
(at least for a project with a well-established code base).
Unless you really know what you are doing, I'd think trying to do Cocoa development
without using Xcode would be an uphill battle and end up costing you much more time than
it will save you.
But I am looking forward to read other folks opinion, being that I use TextMate full time
for Cocoa development.
Gerd
24 Feb
24 Feb
5:22 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Gerd Knops <gerti-textmate(a)bitart.com> wrote:
I don't think that is a good idea for someone in
the learning stage. I use Xcode for project management, debugger and the built-in Clang,
and TextMate for everything else. Which basically means I am using Xcode for maybe a
couple minutes a day on average (at least for a project with a well-established code
base).
Unless you really know what you are doing, I'd think trying to do Cocoa development
without using Xcode would be an uphill battle and end up costing you much more time than
it will save you.
But I am looking forward to read other folks opinion, being that I use TextMate full time
for Cocoa development.
Gerd
Thanks Gerd,
I'm going to take your advice and use Xcode for building/project
management and stick with Textmate for editing. Maybe once I get more
comfortable with Cocoa I will look into Xcode alternatives.
Of course, I'm still interested in others opinions.
Thanks!
5:58 p.m.
On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Jason Coffin wrote:
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Gerd Knops
<gerti-textmate(a)bitart.com> wrote:
Actually I use Textmate for building and running as well. I basically only switch
to Xcode to add/remove files from the project, and for the occasional run where I need the
debugger.
I replicate Xcode's group setup in the file system, and just pen the project folder in
Textmate. That way the structure in both is similar.
I don't think that is a good idea for someone
in the learning stage. I use Xcode for project management, debugger and the built-in
Clang, and TextMate for everything else. Which basically means I am using Xcode for maybe
a couple minutes a day on average (at least for a project with a well-established code
base).
Unless you really know what you are doing, I'd think trying to do Cocoa development
without using Xcode would be an uphill battle and end up costing you much more time than
it will save you.
But I am looking forward to read other folks opinion, being that I use TextMate full time
for Cocoa development.
Gerd
Thanks Gerd,
I'm going to take your advice and use Xcode for building/project
management and stick with Textmate for editing. Maybe once I get more
comfortable with Cocoa I will look into Xcode alternatives.
Of course, I'm still interested in others
opinions.
IIRC Allan uses Textmate exclusively for Textmate2 development. I think when you
work for years on a single project with a fairly static setup that will work, but for
general work I'd still prefer the Xcode/Textmate hybrid.
My absolute favorite feature is that all my log output shows up in Textmate's build
panel with a clickable link, leading me directly to that place in code. All you need to do
is make sure log output has a certain prefix (eg you need a custom NSLog replacement).
Gerd
Thanks!
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26 Feb
26 Feb
4:49 a.m.
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Gerd Knops <gerti-textmate(a)bitart.com>wrote;wrote:
My absolute favorite feature is that all my log output shows up in
Textmate's build panel with a clickable link,
leading me directly to that
place in code. All you need to do is make sure log output has a certain
prefix (eg you need a custom NSLog replacement).
That sounds like an interesting tip for a blog post (hint, nudge, wink)!
I would second the opinion that it's probably smarter to keep Xcode for your
project management tasks while you are learning. If you're working through
tutorials or a book things will be much easier to follow along with, not to
mention all of Apple's sample code.
I'm sure my setup is pretty simple but it basically amounts to me dropping
the project folder on TextMate and using it for all
editing/searching/navigating then switching to Xcode for build/run/debug
type stuff. Getting familiar with the triggers for Cocoa and the general
navigation aids is probably the most important thing to do. Command-T and
command-shift-T are huge.
I too would be very interested to hear how others are using TextMate to
eliminate trips to Xcode though.
Kevin LaCoste
6 May
6 May
5:23 p.m.
On 22 Feb 2010, at 21:19, Jason Coffin wrote:
[...] I know Allan and company development Textmate
using Cmake
instead of Xcode.
I have since retired CMake and made my own build system which
generates Makefiles (so effectively I am using Make, but with majority
of the Makefiles being auto-generated as needed).
I can’t emphasize how much I love this system as I practically never
need to do anything besides adding/removing files/folders,
occasionally add some very light-weight “project files” — but this is
my system made for me, and I went through many iterations to find my
dream setup, so for most I would just echo Gerd’s advice of going with
Xcode.
I'm wondering how to run unit tests this way.
Every OCUnit app
tutorial I see assumes you are using Xcode. Anyone know how to set
up unit tests manually via the command line?
I personally use http://github.com/sorbits/CxxTest (my fork) — I did a
“unix runner” so that it is silent unless there is an error, and if
there is an error, the runner exists with a non-zero exit code.
This works great with Makefiles (so rake as well, I assume). But while
it can be used with Objective-C, it probably mostly is for C++ (e.g.
you would need to write traits to pretty print the Objective-C objects
used in assertions).
Sorry I couldn’t be of more help…
6:14 p.m.
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Allan Odgaard <mailinglist(a)textmate.org> wrote:
I personally use http://github.com/sorbits/CxxTest (my
fork) — I did a “unix
runner” so that it is silent unless there is an error, and if there is an
error, the runner exists with a non-zero exit code.
This works great with Makefiles (so rake as well, I assume). But while it
can be used with Objective-C, it probably mostly is for C++ (e.g. you would
need to write traits to pretty print the Objective-C objects used in
assertions).
So does this mean that TextMate is primarily written in C++ rather than Obj-C?
--
Rick DeNatale
Blog: http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/
Github: http://github.com/rubyredrick
Twitter: @RickDeNatale
WWR: http://www.workingwithrails.com/person/9021-rick-denatale
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickdenatale
6:22 p.m.
On May 6, 2010, at 1:14 PM, Rick DeNatale wrote:
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Allan Odgaard
<mailinglist(a)textmate.org> wrote:
Funny, I wondered the same thing. I know TM1 has large C++ portions, but I thought
that might have been just a holdover.
Personally I think C++ is devil's spawn...
Gerd
I personally use
http://github.com/sorbits/CxxTest (my fork) — I did a “unix
runner” so that it is silent unless there is an error, and if there is an
error, the runner exists with a non-zero exit code.
This works great with Makefiles (so rake as well, I assume). But while it
can be used with Objective-C, it probably mostly is for C++ (e.g. you would
need to write traits to pretty print the Objective-C objects used in
assertions).
So does this mean that TextMate is primarily written in C++ rather than Obj-C?
6:47 p.m.
On 6 May 2010, at 20:14, Rick DeNatale wrote:
Somewhat equal split: wc -l *.{mm,cc,h} → 20,595, 21,404, and 12,484.
There is probably an overweight of C++ in the headers.
Whenever I can stay in pure C++ I do so, which means pretty much all
model code is C++, and I also have a cf (CoreFoundation) wrapper
library that gives easy access to CoreFoundation stuff from C++ (where
one would otherwise use Cocoa).
I like some parts of Objective-C and Cocoa is a nice framework, but I
am growing less and less comfortable with it. Partly the verbosity and
syntactic overhead of Cocoa / Objective-C, partly my growing dislike
of frameworks (as opposed to libraries), and partly me wanting to rely
as little as possible on Apple’s single-vendor technologies for
reasons which in these times probably need little explanation ;)
[…]
So
does this mean that TextMate is primarily written in C++ rather
than Obj-C?
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8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Allan Odgaard -
Gerd Knops -
Jason Coffin -
Kevin LaCoste -
Rick DeNatale