The new way of selecting snippets with "command + #" (when for instance there's more than one assigned to a tab trigger) forcing you to use "command" key instead of just number is really annoying... to me.
Is it possible to cancel this new behavior somehow?
And if not, what's the reason behind the change? I might be better able to get used to it if I can understand the benefits. ;)
Thanks!
I second this. Why was this change done? I guess there mustbe a technical reason for doing this.
I also prefer the old way of handling this!
-- Carsten
Am 01.12.2008 um 14:56 schrieb Sven Axelsson:
I second this. Why was this change done? I guess there must be a technical reason for doing this.
-- Sven Axelsson
2008/11/28 minimal design textmate@minimaldesign.net The new way of selecting snippets with "command + #" (when for instance there's more than one assigned to a tab trigger) forcing you to use "command" key instead of just number is really annoying... to me.
Is it possible to cancel this new behavior somehow?
And if not, what's the reason behind the change? I might be better able to get used to it if I can understand the benefits. ;)
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Carsten Hoever hoever@gmx.de wrote:
I also prefer the old way of handling this!
+1 for the old system.
what is the reasoning / use case for the new system?
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Ale Muñoz wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Carsten Hoever hoever@gmx.de wrote:
I also prefer the old way of handling this!
+1 for the old system.
I too have been running into this a lot lately. :(
James Edward Gray II
add one more vote for the old system for me :P
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:28 AM, James Gray james@grayproductions.net wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Ale Muñoz wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Carsten Hoever hoever@gmx.de wrote:
I also prefer the old way of handling this!
+1 for the old system.
I too have been running into this a lot lately. :(
James Edward Gray II
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Same here.
On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:40 PM, Nick wrote:
add one more vote for the old system for me :P
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:28 AM, James Gray james@grayproductions.net wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Ale Muñoz wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Carsten Hoever hoever@gmx.de wrote:
I also prefer the old way of handling this!
+1 for the old system.
I too have been running into this a lot lately. :(
James Edward Gray II
------------------------------------- Dana Kashubeck Systems Manager Riemer Reporting Service Inc. http://www.riemer.com
Phone: 440-835-2477 x. 125 Fax: 440-835-4594 -------------------------------------
and another one. On 02/12/2008, at 10:45 AM, Dana Kashubeck wrote:
Same here.
On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:40 PM, Nick wrote:
add one more vote for the old system for me :P
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:28 AM, James Gray james@grayproductions.net wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Ale Muñoz wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Carsten Hoever hoever@gmx.de wrote:
I also prefer the old way of handling this!
+1 for the old system.
I too have been running into this a lot lately. :(
James Edward Gray II
Dana Kashubeck Systems Manager Riemer Reporting Service Inc. http://www.riemer.com
Phone: 440-835-2477 x. 125 Fax: 440-835-4594
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Guido Governatori http://www.governatori.net/Textmate
...and yet another one.
On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:55 PM, Guido Governatori gvdgdo@gmail.com wrote:
and another one. On 02/12/2008, at 10:45 AM, Dana Kashubeck wrote:
Same here.
On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:40 PM, Nick wrote:
add one more vote for the old system for me :P
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:28 AM, James Gray james@grayproductions.net wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Ale Muñoz wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Carsten Hoever hoever@gmx.de wrote:
I also prefer the old way of handling this!
+1 for the old system.
I too have been running into this a lot lately. :(
James Edward Gray II
Dana Kashubeck Systems Manager Riemer Reporting Service Inc. http://www.riemer.com
Phone: 440-835-2477 x. 125 Fax: 440-835-4594
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Guido Governatori http://www.governatori.net/Textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Nah, you're all just griping because you're not used to it. <g> Seriously: it's a shock, and I haven't made up my mind yet.
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Richard Wallace wrote:
...and yet another one.
On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:55 PM, Guido Governatori gvdgdo@gmail.com wrote:
and another one. On 02/12/2008, at 10:45 AM, Dana Kashubeck wrote:
Same here.
On Dec 1, 2008, at 7:40 PM, Nick wrote:
add one more vote for the old system for me :P
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 6:28 AM, James Gray james@grayproductions.net wrote:
On Dec 1, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Ale Muñoz wrote:
On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Carsten Hoever hoever@gmx.de wrote: > I also prefer the old way of handling this!
+1 for the old system.
I too have been running into this a lot lately. :(
James Edward Gray II
Dana Kashubeck Systems Manager Riemer Reporting Service Inc. http://www.riemer.com
Phone: 440-835-2477 x. 125 Fax: 440-835-4594
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Guido Governatori http://www.governatori.net/Textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Pete
Roundhouse Consulting, Ltd.
On 2008-Dec-1, at 8:27 PM, Pete Becker wrote:
Nah, you're all just griping because you're not used to it. <g> Seriously: it's a shock, and I haven't made up my mind yet.
I'm sure there's a good reason, but I wouldn't mind knowing what that is.
On 2 Dec 2008, at 02:37, Rob McBroom wrote:
Nah, you're all just griping because you're not used to it. <g> Seriously: it's a shock, and I haven't made up my mind yet.
I'm sure there's a good reason, but I wouldn't mind knowing what that is.
Well, at least a reason: in Snow Leopard Apple wants to allow menu items to trigger without any modifiers at all.
So for example one could make ‘p’ without any modifiers toggle a palette. The problem with this is that if one opens e.g. the File menu and press ‘p’ to jump down to ‘Print…’ then that won’t work, instead the palette will toggle (because its menu item reacts on the ‘p’).
So Apple want to disable handling of menu item key equivalents (w/o modifiers) when menus are open. This breaks our use of 1-9 as shortcut keys. The present build is a test to see how well that works.
On 02/12/2008, at 7:48 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Nah, you're all just griping because you're not used to it. <g> Seriously: it's a shock, and I haven't made up my mind yet.
I'm sure there's a good reason, but I wouldn't mind knowing what that is.
Well, at least a reason: in Snow Leopard Apple wants to allow menu items to trigger without any modifiers at all.
So for example one could make ‘p’ without any modifiers toggle a palette. The problem with this is that if one opens e.g. the File menu and press ‘p’ to jump down to ‘Print…’ then that won’t work, instead the palette will toggle (because its menu item reacts on the ‘p’).
So Apple want to disable handling of menu item key equivalents (w/o modifiers) when menus are open. This breaks our use of 1-9 as shortcut keys. The present build is a test to see how well that works.
I must have updated TM without realising it. I hadn't been in the editor for a little while so when I fired it up the other day I was absolutely shocked that I had forgotten that you had to press ⌘1 instead of just 1 when the contextual menu was up. Seriously, I was puzzled at how my brain could do that to me. At least it's glad to know that I haven't gone fully senile yet.
So Apple want to enable selecting menu items w/o modifiers when menus are open. This breaks our use of 1-9 as shortcut keys.
Does that mean that instead of 1,2,3... (which I never found easy as it is so unpredictable), we might be able to use letters instead? i.e.,
Open Help Open Beer Open Door
one might be able to use H, B, D?
On 02.12.2008, at 12:25, Timothy Bates wrote:
So Apple want to enable selecting menu items w/o modifiers when menus are open. This breaks our use of 1-9 as shortcut keys.
Does that mean that instead of 1,2,3... (which I never found easy as it is so unpredictable), we might be able to use letters instead? i.e.,
Open Help Open Beer Open Door
one might be able to use H, B, D?
Yes, but this works since Tiger, I mean. If you press e.g. SHIFT+CTRL +OPT+J to set your language to "Java Properties" simply type fast successively "Java " and press RETURN or wait 1 sec and write fast something else.
The issue here is that you cannot press 3 to select the third item instead you have to press APPLE+3 to be conform with Snow Leopard. Then e.g. you can select an item which begins with 3 by pressing 3 but it hasn't to be the third item.
--Hans
On 2008-Dec-2, at 4:48 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Well, at least a reason: in Snow Leopard Apple wants to allow menu items to trigger without any modifiers at all.
Oh, man. Are we going to have to hit 'a' or 'i' to get into INSERT mode in TextMate? ;)
So Apple want to disable handling of menu item key equivalents (w/o modifiers) when menus are open. This breaks our use of 1-9 as shortcut keys. The present build is a test to see how well that works.
Sounds like a good enough reason to me. Personally, I like the "type a few characters" trick Hans just mentioned better than ⌘1, but from your description, that's going to quit working as well under Snow Leopard. Too bad.
On 2 Dec 2008, at 14:32, Rob McBroom wrote:
Sounds like a good enough reason to me. Personally, I like the "type a few characters" trick Hans just mentioned better than ⌘1, but from your description, that's going to quit working as well under Snow Leopard. Too bad.
No, 1-9 “breaks” exactly to promote the “type to select” (which has always worked, and we even do special tricks e.g. in the Subversion bundle to have D choose the most likely Diff action etc.).
As for Timothy Bates’ letter about ‘H’ for Help etc. This is presently possible, but starting with Snow Leopard, it will not be (unless I convince them to still allow key equivalents w/o modifiers to trigger when popup menus are open) -- the present build is meant as a test of whether modifiers are ok.
All change is hard, so give it a few days, but after that, do let me know if it is more bother to use the modifiers.
Allan Odgaard wrote:
No, 1-9 “breaks” exactly to promote the “type to select” (which has always worked, and we even do special tricks e.g. in the Subversion bundle to have D choose the most likely Diff action etc.).
Wow. I can't imagine what Apple is thinking. It works great if your pop-up menus are all unique within the first few letters, but usually they're not. I assume that a "pop-up" includes things like the right-click (control-click if you're using a button-challenged mouse) context menu. Pick a common app, like Safari. Right-click an image. There are 14 menu items, with names such as "Open Image In New Window" and "Open Image In New File". You have to type 15 characters to get to the first unique one! And heaven help you if you make a typo or pause for a second.
In fact, I can't think of a single instance in which this could save keystrokes and make menu selection faster. TextMate included. I find the new command-# scheme awful considering how much finger-gymnastics we already have to go through to enter a keyboard command. I mean, I have to type ctrl-shift-option-{whatever} to open the menu, then switch to a different modifer to actually select something? Madness.
If Apple's going to enforce this I guess there's not much you can do. The command-# scheme is as good as you're going to get. But overall this change is just going to lead to developers giving us menus that are artificially unique in the first few characters, such as "1-Do This", "2-Do That", "3-Do the other". I don't think this is really what Apple is shooting for.
All change is hard, so give it a few days, but after that, do let me know if it is more bother to use the modifiers.
I'll be able to live with the new way, but I can't imagine that there's any chance I'll ever come to prefer it. Any way you slice it it's just more keystrokes.
On 2 Dec 2008, at 17:38, Steve King wrote:
Allan Odgaard wrote:
No, 1-9 “breaks” exactly to promote the “type to select” (which has always worked, and we even do special tricks e.g. in the Subversion bundle to have D choose the most likely Diff action etc.).
Wow. I can't imagine what Apple is thinking. It works great if your pop-up menus are all unique within the first few letters, but usually they're not [...]
I may not have explained this well enough, but Apple wanted to improve a user interaction unrelated to TextMate, but that improvement had the side-effect of breaking a TM interaction.
[...] If Apple's going to enforce this I guess there's not much you can do.
Apple is not going to enforce this, so I’ll revert the change in next build (out soon — which will then beceome the official 1.5.8).
Apple is not going to enforce this, so I’ll revert the change in next build (out soon — which will then beceome the official 1.5.8).
Allan, any update on sight that will rollback this fancy behavior. I use Subversion a lot and I really miss NORMAL keyboard shortcuts after I've upgraded to latest TM version.
Also regarding file context menu is there any chance to fix (close) this bug: http://ticket.macromates.com/show?ticket_id=11076E14 "no svn context menu when no file open in projectmode"
Regards,
On 9 Jan 2009, at 13:00, Adam Strzelecki wrote:
Apple is not going to enforce this, so I’ll revert the change in next build (out soon — which will then beceome the official 1.5.8).
Allan, any update on sight that will rollback this fancy behavior. I use Subversion a lot and I really miss NORMAL keyboard shortcuts after I've upgraded to latest TM version.
You can ⌥-click the “Check Now” in software update, and there is a release without the modifiers. It will still be a few days before this release gets promoted to cutting and then minor (a few things related to bundles need to be sorted out first).
Also regarding file context menu is there any chance to fix (close) this bug: [...]
I am really sorry, but it is extremely unlikely I will do that, given that all my efforts are spent trying to get the next big release out (which should hopefully address a lot of the open tickets) — also, the ticket in question is not a simple bug, a fundamental code and design change is required (since it is the text view which runs the commands, and commands require input and variables from the text view plus have their output/return code affect the text view, i.e. these things are tightly coupled, and that is why a text view (open file) is required to run commands — I know there are commands that could do w/ o it, but as said, fundamental code change required).
You can ⌥-click the “Check Now” in software update, and there is a release without the modifiers. (...)
You are a star! Thanks for this brilliant update.
I am really sorry, but it is extremely unlikely I will do that, given that all my efforts are spent trying to get the next big release out (which should hopefully address a lot of the open tickets) — also, the ticket in question is not a simple bug, a fundamental code and design change is required (...)
It is clear for me. I hope someday with TM2 we will get though this one too. Thanks for you hard work, Allan.
And good luck for upcoming release,
Allan Odgaard <mailinglist@...> writes:
No, 1-9 “breaks” exactly to promote the “type to select” (which has always worked, and we even do special tricks e.g. in the Subversion bundle to have D choose the most likely Diff action etc.).
That's strange, because for me D in the subversion bundle menu chooses "Help", and not *any* of the "Diff" commands. I'm not sure what's going on there.
Andrew.
On 3 Dec 2008, at 11:21, Andrew Durdin wrote:
Allan Odgaard <mailinglist@...> writes:
No, 1-9 “breaks” exactly to promote the “type to select” (which has always worked, and we even do special tricks e.g. in the Subversion bundle to have D choose the most likely Diff action etc.).
That's strange, because for me D in the subversion bundle menu chooses "Help", and not *any* of the "Diff" commands. I'm not sure what's going on there.
That is indeed very strange — what about other letters, e.g. C? And is this reproducible for other popup menus?
Also, are you using standard QWERTY layout (and what keymap)?
thanks for letting us know Allan. I'm curious as to how well this will work for me once snow leopard rolls around, since i type to reach menu items a LOT. I hope it'll be customizable.
is there a chance a way to disable that will be coming though?
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:48 AM, Allan Odgaard mailinglist@textmate.org wrote:
On 2 Dec 2008, at 02:37, Rob McBroom wrote:
Nah, you're all just griping because you're not used to it. <g> Seriously: it's a shock, and I haven't made up my mind yet.
I'm sure there's a good reason, but I wouldn't mind knowing what that is.
Well, at least a reason: in Snow Leopard Apple wants to allow menu items to trigger without any modifiers at all.
So for example one could make 'p' without any modifiers toggle a palette. The problem with this is that if one opens e.g. the File menu and press 'p' to jump down to 'Print…' then that won't work, instead the palette will toggle (because its menu item reacts on the 'p').
So Apple want to disable handling of menu item key equivalents (w/o modifiers) when menus are open. This breaks our use of 1-9 as shortcut keys. The present build is a test to see how well that works.
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