Hi all,
I gave TextMate a try, I absolutely love it's feel. I'd definetly buy it, if only it would support more text encodings besides Unicode and iso-latin-1. Specifically, as a hungarian I'd need iso-latin-2 (iso-8859-2), but I assume there other people from other parts of the world with similar concerns, needing different encodings.
I think SubEthaEdit solves this right, with an editable encodings list, and an option to either convert the current text to the new encoding, or "reopen" the text with a new encoding.
I'd be glad to help out with testing or coding or whatever to make this work.
cheers,
Zoltan Varady
On 27/05/2005, at 12.13, Zoltan Varady wrote:
I gave TextMate a try, I absolutely love it's feel. I'd definetly buy it, if only it would support more text encodings besides Unicode and iso-latin-1. Specifically, as a hungarian I'd need iso- latin-2 (iso-8859-2), but I assume there other people from other parts of the world with similar concerns, needing different encodings.
You and all others with non ascii needs (and even those), really should (IMHO of course) use utf-8, as it encompasses all existing encodings into a single universal one. This is also very strongly supported and used natively in many areas in OS X, as well as being TextMate's native encoding.
-- Sune.
On May 27, 2005, at 12:20 PM, Sune Foldager wrote:
On 27/05/2005, at 12.13, Zoltan Varady wrote:
I gave TextMate a try, I absolutely love it's feel. I'd definetly buy it, if only it would support more text encodings besides Unicode and iso-latin-1. Specifically, as a hungarian I'd need iso-latin-2 (iso-8859-2), but I assume there other people from other parts of the world with similar concerns, needing different encodings.
You and all others with non ascii needs (and even those), really should (IMHO of course) use utf-8, as it encompasses all existing encodings into a single universal one. This is also very strongly supported and used natively in many areas in OS X, as well as being TextMate's native encoding.
True. I don't contest that UTF-8 is the way for the future. However I have lots of old projects I'm still working on that use iso-8859-2. It has good browser support, while using UTF-8 as the encoding for my webpages often causes weirdness in some browsers - accented characters appearing in a different font from the other text, for example. We still need those options, and the fact that TextMate is limiting the choices doesn't make it any easier.
regards,
Zoltan.
On 27-05-2005 12:29, Zoltan Varady wrote:
True. I don't contest that UTF-8 is the way for the future. However I have lots of old projects I'm still working on that use iso-8859-2. It has good browser support, while using UTF-8 as the encoding for my webpages often causes weirdness in some browsers - accented characters appearing in a different font from the other text, for example.
You're probably using Firefox and changed your own font preferences... Firefox has a seperate font preference for each encoding (why? beats me). So you'd have to go to the font preferences and set the encoding to unicode at the top and redo the changes you did there.
This is also true for Thunderbird btw.
Jeroen.
On May 27, 2005, at 12:29, Zoltan Varady wrote:
True. I don't contest that UTF-8 is the way for the future. However I have lots of old projects I'm still working on that use iso-8859-2.
You can use iconv to convert them! :)
[...] while using UTF-8 as the encoding for my webpages often causes weirdness in some browsers
What browsers? Googling reveals that both IE 4 and NS 4 does support UTF-8 and IETF wrote in 1998:
IETF Policy on Character Sets and Languages [...] Protocols MUST be able to use the UTF-8 charset, which consists of the ISO 10646 coded character set combined with the UTF-8 character encoding scheme, as defined in [10646] Annex R (published in Amendment 2), for all text.
Protocols MAY specify, in addition, how to use other charsets or other character encoding schemes for ISO 10646, such as UTF-16, but lack of an ability to use UTF-8 is a violation of this policy; such a violation would need a variance procedure ([BCP9] section 9) with clear and solid justification in the protocol specification document before being entered into or advanced upon the standards track.
source: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2277.txt
I'd be rather surprised to find a browser made in the last 7 years which doesn't handle UTF-8.
OTOH legacy encodings should be phased out, and TextMate takes an active role in doing so! :)
As far is i know even IE6 has problems with encodings served from a local disk (without response headers). So it seems IE does not recognize a given charset in the local HTML file. Same file delivered from a properly configured server wouldnt cause any character-set related problems.
.bjoern
Am 27.05.2005 um 12:55 schrieb Allan Odgaard:
On May 27, 2005, at 12:29, Zoltan Varady wrote:
True. I don't contest that UTF-8 is the way for the future. However I have lots of old projects I'm still working on that use iso-8859-2.
You can use iconv to convert them! :)
[...] while using UTF-8 as the encoding for my webpages often causes weirdness in some browsers
What browsers? Googling reveals that both IE 4 and NS 4 does support UTF-8 and IETF wrote in 1998:
IETF Policy on Character Sets and Languages[...] Protocols MUST be able to use the UTF-8 charset, which consists of the ISO 10646 coded character set combined with the UTF-8 character encoding scheme, as defined in [10646] Annex R (published in Amendment 2), for all text.
Protocols MAY specify, in addition, how to use other charsets or other character encoding schemes for ISO 10646, such as UTF-16, but lack of an ability to use UTF-8 is a violation of this policy; such a violation would need a variance procedure ([BCP9] section 9) with clear and solid justification in the protocol specification document before being entered into or advanced upon the standards track.
source: ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2277.txt
I'd be rather surprised to find a browser made in the last 7 years which doesn't handle UTF-8.
OTOH legacy encodings should be phased out, and TextMate takes an active role in doing so! :)
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
!DSPAM:4296fca595401603318693!
On May 27, 2005, at 13:06, Björn Wolf wrote:
As far is i know even IE6 has problems with encodings served from a local disk (without response headers). So it seems IE does not recognize a given charset in the local HTML file [...]
I had a friend test this (since I have no PC) and he says that it does use the encoding in the meta header.
Of course if you leave out the encoding from the meta header, IE can only use a heuristic or fall back to the default system encoding. But that's certainly not an argument against utf-8! ;)
On 27/05/2005, at 14.03, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Of course if you leave out the encoding from the meta header, IE can only use a heuristic or fall back to the default system encoding. But that's certainly not an argument against utf-8! ;)
Not at all.... but to be fair, I think Zoltan refers to font- changes, i.e. it displays and decodes the utf-8 alright, but it draws 'weird' characters from a (style-wise) visually different font. I don't see this in Safari. Don't know about the PC browsers.
-- Sune.
I've never had any problems with accented characters in UTF-8 on any gecko browser (firefox for my main linux box, camino for mac) although I've never tested PC browsers or Safari. Personally, I'd highly recommend that everyone uses UTF-8, because after working on a project for internationalization, I've realized that trying to detect and support even a few charsets is a real pain in the you-know-where. iconv works really well at reencoding data, so maybe give it a shot.
On 5/27/05, Sune Foldager cryo@cyanite.org wrote:
On 27/05/2005, at 14.03, Allan Odgaard wrote:
Of course if you leave out the encoding from the meta header, IE can only use a heuristic or fall back to the default system encoding. But that's certainly not an argument against utf-8! ;)
Not at all.... but to be fair, I think Zoltan refers to font- changes, i.e. it displays and decodes the utf-8 alright, but it draws 'weird' characters from a (style-wise) visually different font. I don't see this in Safari. Don't know about the PC browsers.
-- Sune.
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
-
Allan Odgaard -
Björn Wolf -
Jeroen van der Ham -
Robert Deaton -
Sune Foldager -
Zoltan Varady