Any plans for XHTML/CSS code hinting?
And what about browser previews other than the built in safari rendering?
Also, can we just have the project drawer show up by default. There's hardly ever an instance where I wouldn't need/want it in view.
-t
On 06/10/2004, at 11:14 PM, timothy martens wrote:
Any plans for XHTML/CSS code hinting?
Tim,
I was just about to ask the same question... : )
Please don't take the following as carping complaints(!), just my initial (self-important) impressions! ; )
I was initially very enthusiastic about TM's potential *for my use* (i.e. not it's general potential), but I'm not so sure right now...
I see the underlying power of the text engine, and the macro/script execution, and RegEx/patterns, but it may need a few corners smoothed, for me to feel at home! : ) If I were a big user of Reg Ex, I'd probably feel differently.
TM feels decidedly techie to me; and IMHO will require a more 'complex' interface over time, to become my editor of choice, and to conversely, be easier to use... but it will probably be perfect for the more hard core coders, all those vi and emacs lovers! ; )
I'm afraid I find the auto-complete somewhat underwhelming; it seems pretty basic, and (I think) belies it's simple pattern-matching basis -- it doesn't display any knowledge of syntax (e.g. will suggest 'body' in the context of a div tag, instead of 'border'), and is strict in it's matching (will match 'cellS...' for cellSpacing, but not 'cells...' -- oh, and hitting Escape each time isn't the most ergonomic aspect of editing.
One area that really shines are the snippets. I've been playing with snippets, and obviously see the power in the trigger mechanism above the key commands that other editors use; it gives a pretty good semblance of an auto-complete feature with code hinting. The keyboard trigger is the key feature, as opposed to mentally mapping a keyboard command to a snippet (of which there is also a smaller pool of options.)
In particular the tab stops are one of the killer features I've been seeking in a 'syntax editor' for a long time; I would like this concept spread to the syntax (with my emphasise on X/HTML, CSS etc.), so that perhaps with a modifier, so as not to over-ride entering tabs, you are able to tab between editing points according to the syntax, i.e. tab from outside a tag, successively into the tag's attributes, into the 'label section' of appropriate tags (e.g. hrefs) and to outside the end angle to enter a new tag, or tab through subsequent tags.
This is how predefined snippets operate, and it's great. Consider typing html, to get:
<html> <head> <title>*TAB1*</title> </head> <body> *TAB2* </body> </html>
...but of course, at the moment, you've got to do the heavy lifting! It would take some time to enter a useful set of snippets, but I've started... If anyone else has, we must share!
Folding is nicely done, though it might be good to have some more obvious folding controls; while the 'Toggle Foldings at Level x' function is useful, some more basic Un/Fold All would be good, to also reset folds. (BTW might that command be better phrased 'Toggle Folds at Level x'?
I own skEdit, and really like it's auto-complete feature, which you might consider more traditional, in that it's implemented similarly to other apps (e.g. Dreamweaver, HomeSite); it suggests the likely tag *as* you type, with a drop down menu that is likewise filtered in real-time.
In comparing the features you quickly see that skEdit's approach augment's the user's knowledge and memory of syntax (either reminding/reinforcing, or teaching), whereas TM requires a mental mapping of not only specifics of syntax, but an additional aspect, in the triggers. It may just be my perspective on this feature (i.e. largely reliably, and strict syntax of HTML, vs. highly variable, creative arrangements of syntax in programming languages,) but I don't find this approach as convenient for X/HTML editing.
Having said that, once I had a full compliment of HTML snippets, defining my coding standards (e.g. always include certain attributes, like class, id etc.), I could see it feeling more efficient... I guess the problem becomes finding the balances between these two different approaches, but the way I envisage it, my snippent menu will go on for ever!
Snippets obviously come into their own when completing large blocks of code, such as an HTML document skeleton, and tables, I'm not sure that there are a reliable enough set of 'primitives' that I can use to make this more productive that syntax-specific hinting supported by snippets -- it all depends on the granularity of the snippets.
skEdit also offers rudimentary syntax awareness, in that once you've typed a tag, it will suggest (mostly) valid attributes for that element. This is an invaluable feature, and can assist in producing valid markup (similar in theory to entry control in database applications.) Ideally this would go further and strictly conform to the syntax (e.g. only allow a single class attribute per tag, etc.)
Anyway, it's has gone long enough -- I'll be interested to see how TM develops.
marc
On 06/10/2004, at 11:14 PM, timothy martens wrote:
Any plans for XHTML/CSS code hinting?
And what about browser previews other than the built in safari rendering?
Also, can we just have the project drawer show up by default. There's hardly ever an instance where I wouldn't need/want it in view.
-t
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 07/10/2004, at 12:01 AM, mnothrop wrote:
I'm afraid I find the auto-complete somewhat underwhelming; it seems pretty basic, and (I think) belies it's simple pattern-matching basis -- it doesn't display any knowledge of syntax (e.g. will suggest 'body' in the context of a div tag, instead of 'border'), and is strict in it's matching (will match 'cellS...' for cellSpacing, but not 'cells...' -- oh, and hitting Escape each time isn't the most ergonomic aspect of editing.
It's actually not auto-complete in the sense that it's not trying to guess what you want based on context (yet)... it's simply guessing what you want to type based on what you've already typed elsewhere in the document. It suggested "body" because it appeared further up the page. It possibly would have suggested border as a second option if you'd typed border elsewhere.
Personally, I don't mind hitting escape a few times to find what I want.
Instead of auto-complete, I've become fond of the "Make HTML Tag 2" Macro, which takes the current word (eg div) and makes it into a tag.
...but of course, at the moment, you've got to do the heavy lifting! It would take some time to enter a useful set of snippets, but I've started... If anyone else has, we must share!
I shared everything I could come up in the few hours left before 1.0 was released (most of the snippet menu)... I expect that most people will delete my defaults and start creating their own, which work the way they want to work... after all, that's what TM does :)
I own skEdit, and really like it's auto-complete feature, which you might consider more traditional, in that it's implemented similarly to other apps (e.g. Dreamweaver, HomeSite); it suggests the likely tag *as* you type, with a drop down menu that is likewise filtered in real-time.
I hate those things, but I think something like this is planned for later on.
In comparing the features you quickly see that skEdit's approach augment's the user's knowledge and memory of syntax (either reminding/reinforcing, or teaching), whereas TM requires a mental mapping of not only specifics of syntax, but an additional aspect, in the triggers. It may just be my perspective on this feature (i.e. largely reliably, and strict syntax of HTML, vs. highly variable, creative arrangements of syntax in programming languages,) but I don't find this approach as convenient for X/HTML editing.
I think the point is that you re-shape TM to suit what you want... it's the perfect (and better) mental model to "become one" with your editor. Write a snippet you need, attach it to a trigger that seems natural to YOU, and smile :)
Having said that, once I had a full compliment of HTML snippets, defining my coding standards (e.g. always include certain attributes, like class, id etc.), I could see it feeling more efficient... I guess the problem becomes finding the balances between these two different approaches, but the way I envisage it, my snippent menu will go on for ever!
Exactly -- and it will be YOURS, to suit the way YOU work :)
Justin
On 07/10/2004, at 2:09 AM, Justin French wrote:
On 07/10/2004, at 12:01 AM, mnothrop wrote:
I'm afraid I find the auto-complete somewhat underwhelming; it seems pretty basic, and (I think) belies it's simple pattern-matching basis -- it doesn't display any knowledge of syntax (e.g. will suggest 'body' in the context of a div tag, instead of 'border'), and is strict in it's matching (will match 'cellS...' for cellSpacing, but not 'cells...' -- oh, and hitting Escape each time isn't the most ergonomic aspect of editing.
It's actually not auto-complete in the sense that it's not trying to guess what you want based on context (yet)... it's simply guessing what you want to type based on what you've already typed elsewhere in the document. It suggested "body" because it appeared further up the page. It possibly would have suggested border as a second option if you'd typed border elsewhere.
OK, that's interesting; I read that in the help, but not while I was editing, it makes sense in that context, and I can see it's value for variables/classes, and to a lesser extent, HTML tags. The main drawback, IMHO, being the awkward Esc key -- while Tab seems suitable for snippet triggers (has the appropriate 'issuing a command' feel!) I tend to find the selecting completions from a code-hint menu, via Space to be a far more comfortable, and efficient, after all Space functions to 'finish this word and move on'.
Personally, I don't mind hitting escape a few times to find what I want.
I'll try it, maybe it'll work! I can see your points about customising it to fit... I guess I'm training my editor. : )
Instead of auto-complete, I've become fond of the "Make HTML Tag 2" Macro, which takes the current word (eg div) and makes it into a tag.
Yeah, but I'm favouring snippets with tab stops, I like to be able to jump to specific points in the tags, for attribute values etc. like I've been pleading for... hmmm, maybe I'm starting to grok this whole 'fits like a glove' thing...
...but of course, at the moment, you've got to do the heavy lifting! It would take some time to enter a useful set of snippets, but I've started... If anyone else has, we must share!
I shared everything I could come up in the few hours left before 1.0 was released (most of the snippet menu)... I expect that most people will delete my defaults and start creating their own, which work the way they want to work... after all, that's what TM does :)
Well, thanks for that, to start with!
Ah, I'm just whining about it all not just 'being there'! I am getting a feel for the app, in adding the snippets that I want... and yes it is cool to be able to specify exactly how your syntax should work.
I own skEdit, and really like it's auto-complete feature, which you might consider more traditional, in that it's implemented similarly to other apps (e.g. Dreamweaver, HomeSite); it suggests the likely tag *as* you type, with a drop down menu that is likewise filtered in real-time.
I hate those things, but I think something like this is planned for later on.
I know, they seem to be love-or-hate features... but thinking broadly about these features, keyboard-triggered snippets are *extremely* close in concept, so I'm interested in how you use these features for HTML.
In comparing the features you quickly see that skEdit's approach augment's the user's knowledge and memory of syntax (either reminding/reinforcing, or teaching), whereas TM requires a mental mapping of not only specifics of syntax, but an additional aspect, in the triggers. It may just be my perspective on this feature (i.e. largely reliably, and strict syntax of HTML, vs. highly variable, creative arrangements of syntax in programming languages,) but I don't find this approach as convenient for X/HTML editing.
I think the point is that you re-shape TM to suit what you want... it's the perfect (and better) mental model to "become one" with your editor. Write a snippet you need, attach it to a trigger that seems natural to YOU, and smile :)
Hmmm, OK, now I've made a few macros... yes, I'm getting it more-and-more! : )
skEdit also has Snippets, but they function differently; they are triggered by menu or key command, but crucially, they *optionally* operate on selected text; they are intended to augment the default always-on auto-complete, when working with existing text, or non-tag text formatting.
The selection, and the cursor are 'variables' in the Snippet, al a Tab Stops in TM -- If there is no selection, they simply insert the contents of the Snippet, but without TM's tab stops. One possible issue with TM Macros are ones not prepared for a null selection (e.g. Selection to Link), while it's great that distinguishes between web and mail links, if there is no selection it appear to operate on the full document.
I quickly recorded a Macro to apply <strong>, by using Select Word, which is great, in that it can be applied to any *word* the insertion point is touching, and happily a selection is not over-ridden, so you get both options. OK, that's good! : )
But it would be wicked to combine some of the benefits of Macros and Snippets, so that I can apply a Macro to a selection (or not!) and also get tab stops. Of course there are come complex things that can be done with Macros, but this basic formatting function could be very effective.
Having said that, once I had a full compliment of HTML snippets, defining my coding standards (e.g. always include certain attributes, like class, id etc.), I could see it feeling more efficient... I guess the problem becomes finding the balances between these two different approaches, but the way I envisage it, my snippent menu will go on for ever!
Exactly -- and it will be YOURS, to suit the way YOU work :)
Yes, except it will be annoying! ; )
Perhaps if I were able to group items in the Snippet and Macro menus that might help, but they're already one level down in the menu...
I tend to find the Macro and Snippet menus a little bit awkward being buried one level down (more so because the Macro menu jumps to the left, because it is long.) It seems that these are the two areas that will focus a lot of extension effort, and while it's logical to have them under automate, maybe there could be some thoughts on how they might be made a little more accessible...?
Anyway, TM is an interesting beast, and I'm only scratching the surface.
marc
On Oct 6, 2004, at 6:54 AM, marc wrote:
Perhaps if I were able to group items in the Snippet and Macro menus that might help, but they're already one level down in the menu...
I tend to find the Macro and Snippet menus a little bit awkward being buried one level down (more so because the Macro menu jumps to the left, because it is long.) It seems that these are the two areas that will focus a lot of extension effort, and while it's logical to have them under automate, maybe there could be some thoughts on how they might be made a little more accessible...?
Marc - I think we're sharing DNA, everything you've written on the list express my needs and sentiments to a tee. I can see how the macros/snippets will be developing exponentially. Perhaps it should be an option to hav them in their own floating palettes?
Boy Allan, you sure have a lot of reading to do. What a busy first 24 hours!
On Oct 6, 2004, at 4:01 AM, mnothrop wrote:
I own skEdit, and really like it's auto-complete feature, which you might consider more traditional, in that it's implemented similarly to other apps (e.g. Dreamweaver, HomeSite); it suggests the likely tag *as* you type, with a drop down menu that is likewise filtered in real-time.
In comparing the features you quickly see that skEdit's approach augment's the user's knowledge and memory of syntax (either reminding/reinforcing, or teaching), whereas TM requires a mental mapping of not only specifics of syntax, but an additional aspect, in the triggers. It may just be my perspective on this feature (i.e. largely reliably, and strict syntax of HTML, vs. highly variable, creative arrangements of syntax in programming languages,) but I don't find this approach as convenient for X/HTML editing.
Well said Marc. I'm disappointed, because I had just assumed that (XHTML/CSS) code-hinting would be there by default in TextMate. But now as I read the list and the split in opinions about this feature -- I'm wondering if it will ever be reality. Not to sound too negative -- there's a lot I like about TM so far. Further exploration is in order before making judgments.
On 07/10/2004, at 1:57 PM, timothy martens wrote:
Well said Marc. I'm disappointed, because I had just assumed that (XHTML/CSS) code-hinting would be there by default in TextMate. But now as I read the list and the split in opinions about this feature -- I'm wondering if it will ever be reality. Not to sound too negative -- there's a lot I like about TM so far. Further exploration is in order before making judgments.
The hinting (in some form) is planned for the future. In the meantime, perhaps read this blog post I just published, which might encourage you to forget what you thought were cool features, and embrace TextMate's endless customisation and innovation through snippets and macros.
http://justinfrench.com/index.php?id=55
It's a bit of a rant, but please remember that I've been using TM about 14 hrs a day for over a week now. I feel I've got a bit of a head start and "get it", and can't help but try to show other people "the light".
Justin
On 06/10/2004, at 10:14 PM, timothy martens wrote:
Any plans for XHTML/CSS code hinting?
And what about browser previews other than the built in safari rendering?
The thing is, TM is not just about HTML... a lot of people will never use it for web design. TM tries to put you in control, and bend the editors features into something that works for you. The Safari idea was something I proposed to Allan, and it's just a command bundled with TM... in theory, any browser that supported Apple Script could use a similar command.
In short, write your own, and ask for help if you need it :)
Also, can we just have the project drawer show up by default. There's hardly ever an instance where I wouldn't need/want it in view.
It's coming in a future version, AFAIK...
Justin
Hello all,
Well I happen to be one of the people that was eagerly awaiting TM after reading all the buzz and never having been that fond of BBedit. With that said let me share some of my initial impression after a couple of hours of work.
1. Has a great feel overall. 2. Has the best project file list that I have seen, like DW but fast and pretty. The Drag and drop from the finder is great. 3. Integrated macros are a big timesaver.
Before the following list I just want to say that TM is the closest to perfect text editor I have used however for me it still has a few missing items. I would also like to encourage the developers to listen closely to these because I have a sense that this might be the perfect editor for a heavy duty programmer but the html designer/coder that I am might not have been the main focus and with a few improvements they could tap a whole other market (please take no ill will from this assumption I am quite ready to be told I am wrong, I also think that one or two of the following points might be solvable now).
Criticisms and Wish-list (in order of desire to see improved) 4. Dragging an image from the project pane into a HTML file should add something like <img src="eric.jpg" alt="eric" width="100" height="100" /> and not the actual source code of an image at the insertion point.
5. IMO the preview window needs help. I really do not like the fact that it closes when I switch to another document and even worse does not reappear when returning to the original document. This is might commonly be done when switching to another document to copy and paste something. I would much rather see a non-modal preview window that updates when as the user switches between files. It would also be helpful if it did not display non-html files such as css files.
As a web designer that adheres to web-standards I find myself doing quite a bit of work in the CSS file while needing to to view the html file. I need to have a html preview open while editing the CSS file. I find that I am doing just as much designing in code as in photoshop these days. I use a wonderful program called CSSedit (http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/) for this right now and while there preview is not perfect it is much more usable right now. Please go and check it out and see if you can provide a quick fix or two.
5a. Preview to Browser seems like it is almost there however the command currently refreshes the front safari window however it does not but the page that I am viewing into safari first! It seems like there should be two commands - first preview current page in bowser - and then secondly the current command to refresh the page. I think this one might be a quick fix as it is in the commands menu (I would do it and share if I could but alas I do not know applescript yet.)
6. Context sensitive code completion that is included in skedit and DW (XHTML/CSS are most importnat to me). 7. Column select but with the option for discontinuous selections (selecting every other line) like subethaedit. 8. Working with a remote server/FTP like DW 9. Split Pane Views
BUGS 1. HTML highlighting seems to break after the following: <script language="JavaScript" src="behaviors.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
2. If you open an HTML page with a Quicktime movie and then go to another page the preview window closes (as mentioned above in point 5) however I noticed that the movie (or at least the sound) kept playing even though the window was gone. So an uneducated guess might be that the window is not disposing of all elements that where in it and it might represent a significant problem/memory leak if it also not disposing flash/shockwave and graphics.
Keep up the great work. I would be very interested in feedback about my suggestions from the developer and if they are on the table to be taken care of I would strongly consider purchasing a copy now.
Sincerely,
Eric Curtis
Let the flamewars begin!
- Context sensitive code completion that is included in skedit and DW
(XHTML/CSS are most importnat to me).
In my opinion that is a bad idea. This will bloat the editor. XHTML and CSS are not all that hard to learn, and you can quickly learn by heart the properties. Is this going to save you that much typing?
It would be more applicable for cocoa where you have things such as initWithACalibratedPredefinedButtLongMethodNameColor: withThisParameter: andThisParameter: andMoremormeoParameters.
And Xcode already does that for cocoa.
2. The issue about CSS.
Again, this would unnecessarily bloat the editor. CSSEdit is a great stand-alone application, it does what it is supposed to do perfectly. Just run it in conjunction with TextMate.
Nick
On Oct 6, 2004, at 11:52 AM, Eric Curtis wrote:
Hello all,
Well I happen to be one of the people that was eagerly awaiting TM after reading all the buzz and never having been that fond of BBedit. With that said let me share some of my initial impression after a couple of hours of work.
- Has a great feel overall.
- Has the best project file list that I have seen, like DW but fast
and pretty. The Drag and drop from the finder is great. 3. Integrated macros are a big timesaver.
Before the following list I just want to say that TM is the closest to perfect text editor I have used however for me it still has a few missing items. I would also like to encourage the developers to listen closely to these because I have a sense that this might be the perfect editor for a heavy duty programmer but the html designer/coder that I am might not have been the main focus and with a few improvements they could tap a whole other market (please take no ill will from this assumption I am quite ready to be told I am wrong, I also think that one or two of the following points might be solvable now).
Criticisms and Wish-list (in order of desire to see improved) 4. Dragging an image from the project pane into a HTML file should add something like <img src="eric.jpg" alt="eric" width="100" height="100" /> and not the actual source code of an image at the insertion point.
- IMO the preview window needs help. I really do not like the fact
that it closes when I switch to another document and even worse does not reappear when returning to the original document. This is might commonly be done when switching to another document to copy and paste something. I would much rather see a non-modal preview window that updates when as the user switches between files. It would also be helpful if it did not display non-html files such as css files.
As a web designer that adheres to web-standards I find myself doing quite a bit of work in the CSS file while needing to to view the html file. I need to have a html preview open while editing the CSS file. I find that I am doing just as much designing in code as in photoshop these days. I use a wonderful program called CSSedit (http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/) for this right now and while there preview is not perfect it is much more usable right now. Please go and check it out and see if you can provide a quick fix or two.
5a. Preview to Browser seems like it is almost there however the command currently refreshes the front safari window however it does not but the page that I am viewing into safari first! It seems like there should be two commands - first preview current page in bowser - and then secondly the current command to refresh the page. I think this one might be a quick fix as it is in the commands menu (I would do it and share if I could but alas I do not know applescript yet.)
- Context sensitive code completion that is included in skedit and DW
(XHTML/CSS are most importnat to me). 7. Column select but with the option for discontinuous selections (selecting every other line) like subethaedit. 8. Working with a remote server/FTP like DW 9. Split Pane Views
BUGS
- HTML highlighting seems to break after the following:
<script language="JavaScript" src="behaviors.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
- If you open an HTML page with a Quicktime movie and then go to
another page the preview window closes (as mentioned above in point 5) however I noticed that the movie (or at least the sound) kept playing even though the window was gone. So an uneducated guess might be that the window is not disposing of all elements that where in it and it might represent a significant problem/memory leak if it also not disposing flash/shockwave and graphics.
Keep up the great work. I would be very interested in feedback about my suggestions from the developer and if they are on the table to be taken care of I would strongly consider purchasing a copy now.
Sincerely,
Eric Curtis
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On Oct 6, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Nick Hristov wrote:
- Context sensitive code completion that is included in skedit and
DW (XHTML/CSS are most importnat to me).
In my opinion that is a bad idea. This will bloat the editor. XHTML and CSS are not all that hard to learn, and you can quickly learn by heart the properties. Is this going to save you that much typing?
Hi Nick,
I think your comment is 100% correct but so is mine...I think all too often people like to think in black and white, a program should or should not have a particular feature. Whereas a great program is one that would augment the working style for the particular user.
What one forgets is that users come in all varieties of experience and that typing code might be the day in day out task for one person while another user (like me) will switch between working on a 3D project, motion graphics, illustration or website and that I forget some syntax on occasion (mostly CSS stuff).
Anyway I would hope that the developer listens to both of us and if it is something that is requested by many people will not feel the need to make a boolean choice but rather provide a boolean box for turning a feature on and off ; )
Warm Regards,
Eric Curtis http://www.rgbdesignstudio.com
PS. I also like the hinting when I start playing around with a new language and I have been eyeing ruby...
Hey Nick,
Code completion helps everyone! Even us web designers/developers. Only the developers can say really how much it would bloat the application. I say if it's not a feature of the app make it a plug-in so the "hard-core" programmers who don't need/want the code completion for web languages/technologies don't have to have it slow them down and the rest of us Designers/Devs can take advantage of a feature we've come to know and love.
With regard to cssEdit, I don't like having 15 apps open at once. The fewer the apps the better for me. skEdit, in my opinion, does better than cssEdit (again because of code completion) and makes my css dev time so much shorter. I think TM needs to be flexible and fit different types of work by using some sort of plug-in model to add the extras we need and want.
-- jheyer
On 07/10/2004, at 5:04 AM, jheyer wrote:
With regard to cssEdit, I don't like having 15 apps open at once. The fewer the apps the better for me. skEdit, in my opinion, does better than cssEdit (again because of code completion) and makes my css dev time so much shorter. I think TM needs to be flexible and fit different types of work by using some sort of plug-in model to add the extras we need and want.
Really, I find CSSEdit's auto-complete view a bit better than skEdit's, though I'm now less enthusiastic about it's 'guided view' than I originally was.
The guided/GUI view could be more helpful/efficient, but it does have the benefit of laying out for you the available options...
On Oct 6, 2004, at 8:04 AM, jheyer wrote:
Hey Nick,
Code completion helps everyone!
Indeed.
With regard to cssEdit, I don't like having 15 apps open at once. The fewer the apps the better for me. skEdit, in my opinion, does better than cssEdit (again because of code completion) and makes my css dev time so much shorter.
This is true.
I think TM needs to be flexible and fit different types of work by using some sort of plug-in model to add the extras we need and want.
It would be nice if we could develop for everyone's needs this way without lines being drawn in the sand between programmers and us web/UI freaks.
On Oct 6, 2004, at 7:01 AM, Nick Hristov wrote:
Let the flamewars begin!
Easy!
- Context sensitive code completion that is included in skedit and
DW (XHTML/CSS are most importnat to me).
In my opinion that is a bad idea. This will bloat the editor. XHTML and CSS are not all that hard to learn, and you can quickly learn by heart the properties. Is this going to save you that much typing?
Yes it is. When your working on a 1000 lines of CSS with as many ids and classes it REALLY helps to have your editor be able to give you those names in context. Yet again I refer to Topstyle as the ultimate example of how to implement this and I would urge the developers to play with that application in-depth. No need to reinvent the wheel in terms of interaction design patterns.
- The issue about CSS.
Again, this would unnecessarily bloat the editor.
Then make it a module that you can load optionally
CSSEdit is a great stand-alone application, it does what it is supposed to do perfectly.
It's not that great. Especially if your coming from the darkside (PC) and have operated in the Homesite/Topstyle environment. Comparitively, CSSEdit is rather immature. I don't mean to knock it. I own it and it is a good, but it doesn't come close to its PC counterpart -- Topstyle -- That is an app that DOES WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO PERFECTLY
Just run it in conjunction with TextMate.
Why? The CSS are text files. Textmate is a text editor. When I'm developing I want my CSS embedded in the head of my doc so I can tweak and preview, tweak and preview, tweak and preview EASILY.
On Oct 6, 2004, at 6:52 AM, Eric Curtis wrote:
- Dragging an image from the project pane into a HTML file should add
something like <img src="eric.jpg" alt="eric" width="100" height="100" /> and not the actual source code of an image at the insertion point.
- IMO the preview window needs help. I really do not like the fact
that it closes when I switch to another document and even worse does not reappear when returning to the original document. This is might commonly be done when switching to another document to copy and paste something. I would much rather see a non-modal preview window that updates when as the user switches between files. It would also be helpful if it did not display non-html files such as css files.
As a web designer that adheres to web-standards I find myself doing quite a bit of work in the CSS file while needing to to view the html file. I need to have a html preview open while editing the CSS file. I find that I am doing just as much designing in code as in photoshop these days. I use a wonderful program called CSSedit (http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/) for this right now and while there preview is not perfect it is much more usable right now. Please go and check it out and see if you can provide a quick fix or two.
5a. Preview to Browser seems like it is almost there however the command currently refreshes the front safari window however it does not but the page that I am viewing into safari first! It seems like there should be two commands - first preview current page in bowser - and then secondly the current command to refresh the page. I think this one might be a quick fix as it is in the commands menu (I would do it and share if I could but alas I do not know applescript yet.)
- Context sensitive code completion that is included in skedit and DW
(XHTML/CSS are most importnat to me). 7. Column select but with the option for discontinuous selections (selecting every other line) like subethaedit. 8. Working with a remote server/FTP like DW 9. Split Pane Views
These are all things I need as well in order for TM to be my editor.
On 6. Oct 2004, at 18:52, Eric Curtis wrote:
Keep up the great work. I would be very interested in feedback about my suggestions from the developer and if they are on the table to be taken care of I would strongly consider purchasing a copy now.
Your feedback sounds reasonable! Although often requested, the code hinting is probably not before 1.3, because I think it'll take some time for me to come up with a good system for support of multiple language, and right now I'm not taking a 2-4 weeks research & experiment break... ;)
I liked the thing about dragging images to the editor!
With regard to the web preview, what I do for CSS is that I open a new single file window with the CSS file (just drag it from the project outline to the TM icon) and thus bind the preview to the "main" project's document -- but you're right, I'm not really doing HTML, CSS, etc. that often, so much of this functionality was made based on my own rather primitive needs :) But it'll be refined!
Kind regards Allan
On Oct 6, 2004, at 7:30 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
With regard to the web preview, what I do for CSS is that I open a new single file window with the CSS file (just drag it from the project outline to the TM icon) and thus bind the preview to the "main" project's document -- but you're right, I'm not really doing HTML, CSS, etc. that often, so much of this functionality was made based on my own rather primitive needs :) But it'll be refined!
Allan - definitely have a look at the way Topstyle (PC) handles browser previews. Not only is there a live preview pain (think frameset) which you show/hide or resize (also choose which rendering engine to use: IE, Gecko) but you can preview the file in the actual browser of your choice on a case by case basis. For example, after you have mapped all your browsers in the preferences, when you want to preview, you hit a key (spacebar) which brings up a horizontal oriented dialog showing the browsers you've assigned. You then choose which one to launch based on it's #
Hit space to launch dialog: 1 - Internet Explorer 2 - Firefox 3 - Mozilla 4 - Opera 5 - Safari : )
It's VERY well implemented.
On 07/10/2004, at 1:54 AM, Justin French wrote:
On 06/10/2004, at 10:14 PM, timothy martens wrote:
Any plans for XHTML/CSS code hinting?
And what about browser previews other than the built in safari rendering?
The thing is, TM is not just about HTML... a lot of people will never use it for web design. TM tries to put you in control, and bend the editors features into something that works for you. The Safari idea was something I proposed to Allan, and it's just a command bundled with TM... in theory, any browser that supported Apple Script could use a similar command.
Yeah, I really understand the flexibility this approach offers -- with a strong community lots of useful plugins could be available, a chance for an 'Extras' page on the site? -- but reliance on this sort of 'flat' extensibility can also lead to a reduction in usability; these useful add-on features get lost in a mile long, single hierarchy, nested menu.
Manual grouping would be the first request, there might be an opening for some sort of 'Snippet' 'Macro' browser, or even a filter search/auto-complete/CLI invocation (e.g. LaunchBar/Quicksilver.)
In short, write your own, and ask for help if you need it :)
Yeah, I am, but that's going to take a while... at the moment it looks like I will have to do double the work:
1. define Snippets for pseudo-autocomplete (on steroids) for new tags 2. record Macros to convert/wrap existing text with tags
Now, may it can be argued that '2' is somewhat redundant, or that it's only really necessary for bigger ticket items, like tables, but what if Snippets simply added support for a 'Selection' variable, along with it's tab stops, so that Snippets could also be run over a selection, conveniently making '2' completely redundant, and extending the power of Snippets.
Also, can we just have the project drawer show up by default. There's hardly ever an instance where I wouldn't need/want it in view.
It's coming in a future version, AFAIK...
That's good to know. : )
marc
On Oct 6, 2004, at 7:38 AM, marc wrote:
- define Snippets for pseudo-autocomplete (on steroids) for new tags
- record Macros to convert/wrap existing text with tags
Now, may it can be argued that '2' is somewhat redundant, or that it's only really necessary for bigger ticket items, like tables, but what if Snippets simply added support for a 'Selection' variable, along with it's tab stops, so that Snippets could also be run over a selection, conveniently making '2' completely redundant, and extending the power of Snippets.
ala skEdit, this would be brilliant and eliminate said redundancy
Also, can we just have the project drawer show up by default. There's hardly ever an instance where I wouldn't need/want it in view.
It's coming in a future version, AFAIK...
That's good to know. : )
Ditto
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Allan Odgaard -
Eric Curtis -
jheyer -
Justin French -
marc -
mnothrop
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Nick Hristov -
timothy martens