I am not a big fan of the drawer widget. I was excited to hear that apple mail is dropping the drawer come 10.4. I would like to request comments about converting the drawer to a mini panel (the type that disappears when focus is lost). near the top of the panel, there would be a drop down which would list all open projects and files (if an open file has it's own window). as you focus a new window, the mini panel will update to reflect the currently focused window's project or file. in the case of a file, the mini panel would be blank.
what does everyone else think?
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Todd Boland wrote:
I am not a big fan of the drawer widget. I was excited to hear that apple mail is dropping the drawer come 10.4. I would like to request comments about converting the drawer to a mini panel (the type that disappears when focus is lost). near the top of the panel, there would be a drop down which would list all open projects and files (if an open file has it's own window). as you focus a new window, the mini panel will update to reflect the currently focused window's project or file. in the case of a file, the mini panel would be blank.
I would dislike this. The physical attachment of the file list to the project window is very meaningful and useful to me.
If TextMate were to move to a "source pane" like iTunes and the new Mail instead of the drawer, that would be fine (as well as consistent with those apps). I don't have a problem with the drawer, though.
What are your reservations about the drawer? I know it can sometimes "forget" its assigned width and height when the window is resized, due to some window manager bugs. Anything else?
I am pretty much completely in agreement with Todd. A disappearing panel would be rather annoying to me, partly given the impact on the ability to drag and drop files into it.
A source pane like 10.4 mail would be OK, though I don't see it as really an improvement (then again, I haven't used 10.4 mail yet, so...)
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Jonathan Chaffer wrote:
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Todd Boland wrote:
I am not a big fan of the drawer widget. I was excited to hear that apple mail is dropping the drawer come 10.4. I would like to request comments about converting the drawer to a mini panel (the type that disappears when focus is lost). near the top of the panel, there would be a drop down which would list all open projects and files (if an open file has it's own window). as you focus a new window, the mini panel will update to reflect the currently focused window's project or file. in the case of a file, the mini panel would be blank.
I would dislike this. The physical attachment of the file list to the project window is very meaningful and useful to me.
If TextMate were to move to a "source pane" like iTunes and the new Mail instead of the drawer, that would be fine (as well as consistent with those apps). I don't have a problem with the drawer, though.
What are your reservations about the drawer? I know it can sometimes "forget" its assigned width and height when the window is resized, due to some window manager bugs. Anything else?
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
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I think that the drawer should be left alone. It is very usable, and I like the fact that I can resize it any way I want.
The disappearing panel is a bad idea. Worst idea I have ever heard... like a ... jump-to-conclusions mat.
Why would it disappear? Where would the panel go?
Just my 2c of de-constructive criticism.
Nick
On Apr 5, 2005, at 1:44 PM, Noah M. Daniels wrote:
I am pretty much completely in agreement with Todd. A disappearing panel would be rather annoying to me, partly given the impact on the ability to drag and drop files into it.
A source pane like 10.4 mail would be OK, though I don't see it as really an improvement (then again, I haven't used 10.4 mail yet, so...)
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Jonathan Chaffer wrote:
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Todd Boland wrote:
I am not a big fan of the drawer widget. I was excited to hear that apple mail is dropping the drawer come 10.4. I would like to request comments about converting the drawer to a mini panel (the type that disappears when focus is lost). near the top of the panel, there would be a drop down which would list all open projects and files (if an open file has it's own window). as you focus a new window, the mini panel will update to reflect the currently focused window's project or file. in the case of a file, the mini panel would be blank.
I would dislike this. The physical attachment of the file list to the project window is very meaningful and useful to me.
If TextMate were to move to a "source pane" like iTunes and the new Mail instead of the drawer, that would be fine (as well as consistent with those apps). I don't have a problem with the drawer, though.
What are your reservations about the drawer? I know it can sometimes "forget" its assigned width and height when the window is resized, due to some window manager bugs. Anything else?
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
Nick,
the default behavior for a mini panel is to disappear once the application loses focus.
On Apr 5, 2005 5:58 PM, Nick Hristov nick.hristov@gmail.com wrote:
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I think that the drawer should be left alone. It is very usable, and I like the fact that I can resize it any way I want.
The disappearing panel is a bad idea. Worst idea I have ever heard... like a ... jump-to-conclusions mat.
Why would it disappear? Where would the panel go?
Just my 2c of de-constructive criticism.
Nick
On Apr 5, 2005, at 1:44 PM, Noah M. Daniels wrote:
I am pretty much completely in agreement with Todd. A disappearing panel would be rather annoying to me, partly given the impact on the ability to drag and drop files into it.
A source pane like 10.4 mail would be OK, though I don't see it as really an improvement (then again, I haven't used 10.4 mail yet, so...)
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Jonathan Chaffer wrote:
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Todd Boland wrote:
I am not a big fan of the drawer widget. I was excited to hear that apple mail is dropping the drawer come 10.4. I would like to request comments about converting the drawer to a mini panel (the type that disappears when focus is lost). near the top of the panel, there would be a drop down which would list all open projects and files (if an open file has it's own window). as you focus a new window, the mini panel will update to reflect the currently focused window's project or file. in the case of a file, the mini panel would be blank.
I would dislike this. The physical attachment of the file list to the project window is very meaningful and useful to me.
If TextMate were to move to a "source pane" like iTunes and the new Mail instead of the drawer, that would be fine (as well as consistent with those apps). I don't have a problem with the drawer, though.
What are your reservations about the drawer? I know it can sometimes "forget" its assigned width and height when the window is resized, due to some window manager bugs. Anything else?
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
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For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
http://www.mcelhearn.com/article.php?story=20041116135640496
highlights some of the drawer's shortcomings.
Todd
On Apr 5, 2005 2:39 PM, Jonathan Chaffer jchaffer@structureinteractive.com wrote:
On Apr 5, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Todd Boland wrote:
I am not a big fan of the drawer widget. I was excited to hear that apple mail is dropping the drawer come 10.4. I would like to request comments about converting the drawer to a mini panel (the type that disappears when focus is lost). near the top of the panel, there would be a drop down which would list all open projects and files (if an open file has it's own window). as you focus a new window, the mini panel will update to reflect the currently focused window's project or file. in the case of a file, the mini panel would be blank.
I would dislike this. The physical attachment of the file list to the project window is very meaningful and useful to me.
If TextMate were to move to a "source pane" like iTunes and the new Mail instead of the drawer, that would be fine (as well as consistent with those apps). I don't have a problem with the drawer, though.
What are your reservations about the drawer? I know it can sometimes "forget" its assigned width and height when the window is resized, due to some window manager bugs. Anything else?
What are your reservations about the drawer? I know it can sometimes "forget" its assigned width and height when the window is resized, due to some window manager bugs. Anything else?
The only problem I have w/ the drawer is something like this:
let's say I have a file-structure that's somehow deep:
root/ files files files folder/ files files files folder/ files files files folder/ files files files
well, anyway ... the fact that the drawer doesn't have scroll bars (horizontal) is what I'm trying to get to.
Let's say I'm working on a group of files that are 3, or 4 levels 'deep' (folders down, whatever).
The drawers, if it's not wide enough, will truncate from the middle .. so I'll have a list of files like:
So..php So..php Li..php
err .. anyway . you get the idea .. unles, of course, I expand the drawer pretty wide to see everything ... w/ a 'pane' or side window/whatever, I can scroll the 'focus' of the pane/panel over to the right so I'm only looking down the column I need to be looking at .. I don't need to read the beginning of hte file names 3 parent dis up .. This way I can read the beginning of the file name (If not all of it) of the section I'm working in so I know which file is which .. and .. well, you get the idea.
I don't hate the drawer, I'm just saying, that's the one thing I find to be annoying.
But like Alan said, the cmd-t *almost* makes it irrelevant, but not exactly ...
-steve
On Apr 6, 2005, at 0:44, Steve Lianoglou wrote:
err .. anyway . you get the idea .. unles, of course, I expand the drawer pretty wide to see everything ... w/ a 'pane' or side window/whatever, I can scroll the 'focus' of the pane/panel over to the right so I'm only looking down the column I need to be looking at
Actually this is more of a problem with the outline view. The column width is “fixed” and not adjusting to the widest entry, which is why there is no horizontal scroll bar. For this reason I actually prefer the drawer, because it's easy to resize and doesn't affect the width of the text area.
I don't hate the drawer, I'm just saying, that's the one thing I find to be annoying.
When I revisit the project window I'll allow for double-clicking groups to “descend” into these. That should cut down on leading indent.
On Apr 5, 2005, at 4:17 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
On Apr 6, 2005, at 0:44, Steve Lianoglou wrote:
err .. anyway . you get the idea .. unles, of course, I expand the drawer pretty wide to see everything ... w/ a 'pane' or side window/whatever, I can scroll the 'focus' of the pane/panel over to the right so I'm only looking down the column I need to be looking at
Actually this is more of a problem with the outline view. The column width is “fixed” and not adjusting to the widest entry, which is why there is no horizontal scroll bar.
Do you have "Autoresizes columns to fit" turned on for the NSOutlineView?
Best, Eric
On Apr 6, 2005, at 1:26, Erich Ocean wrote:
Actually this is more of a problem with the outline view. The column width is “fixed” and not adjusting to the widest entry, which is why there is no horizontal scroll bar.
Do you have "Autoresizes columns to fit" turned on for the NSOutlineView?
This setting tells the outline view to resize the columns when the outline view itself is resized. It doesn't resize the columns based on the actual content.
Allan Odgaard wrote:
I don't hate the drawer, I'm just saying, that's the one thing I find to be annoying.
When I revisit the project window I'll allow for double-clicking groups to “descend” into these. That should cut down on leading indent.
Ohh .. a little 'hoisting' action like what you're talking about would be pretty sweet.
cheers, -steve
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I dunno... I sorta favor ditching the drawer. :-)
More often than not, I like my text editor to be somewhat full-screen... drawers have a way of making that really not work...
I feel like a sidebar approach would be more practical.
In fact, if the world were ideal and bloat wasn't a factor, I rather like the way jEdit docks stuff to the left, right, and bottom... it's rather handy for keeping tools like an XPath tester, Ant task manager, and other tools easily accessible, yet unobtrusively minimized when not in use.
Best, jL
On Apr 5, 2005, at 8:27 PM, Steve Lianoglou wrote:
Allan Odgaard wrote:
I don't hate the drawer, I'm just saying, that's the one thing I find to be annoying.
When I revisit the project window I'll allow for double-clicking groups to “descend” into these. That should cut down on leading indent.
Ohh .. a little 'hoisting' action like what you're talking about would be pretty sweet.
cheers, -steve
On 06.04.2005, at 00:44, Steve Lianoglou wrote:
What are your reservations about the drawer? I know it can sometimes "forget" its assigned width and height when the window is resized, due to some window manager bugs. Anything else?
The only problem I have w/ the drawer is something like this: let's say I have a file-structure that's somehow deep:
root/ files folder/ files
..snip..
I agree with Steve. With java projects and their deeply nested folder structure, I have to make the drawer very wide to see the actual filenames.
It wouldn't be as bad as it is if the drawer could merge the names of single subfolders in the name of the parent folder (like Eclipse does). Instead of displaying
src/ com/ mycompany/ MyApp.java
it would then look like
src/com/mycompany/ MyApp.java
Cheers, -Ralph.
On Apr 5, 2005, at 20:31, Todd Boland wrote:
I am not a big fan of the drawer widget. I was excited to hear that apple mail is dropping the drawer come 10.4. I would like to request comments about converting the drawer to a mini panel [...]
With the file chooser (cmd-T) the source list is less important (I personally have the drawer closed).
In the future the difference between a project and document window is basically just whether or not the drawer is open.
And I personally like the drawer as a UI element (at least much more than those panels/utility windows) -- so chances for this one disappearing are slim.
Actually, pre-1.0 release of TextMate used a source list within the window.
IMHO iTunes should (be non metal and) use a drawer for the source list. Give me hotkeys for Library and Party Shuffle, and I'd have the drawer closed 99% of the time, meaning a smaller window.
On Apr 5, 2005, at 3:23 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
With the file chooser (cmd-T) the source list is less important (I personally have the drawer closed).
My setup as well.
In the future the difference between a project and document window is basically just whether or not the drawer is open.
And I personally like the drawer as a UI element (at least much more than those panels/utility windows) -- so chances for this one disappearing are slim.
I recall earlier a discussion to have the project drawer give more information about the status of the project in svn. If this occurs it would be great.
On Apr 5, 2005, at 3:23 PM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
And I personally like the drawer as a UI element (at least much more than those panels/utility windows) -- so chances for this one disappearing are slim.
Actually, pre-1.0 release of TextMate used a source list within the window.
I'd actually like that. FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the drawer either. It's probably OS X's most poorly-executed new UI concept, if you ignore metal windows. Although TextMate's drawer implementation seems a lot less annoying than Mail's did, for some reason.
Chris
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Allan Odgaard -
Chris Thomas -
Erich Ocean -
John Lianogou -
Jonathan Chaffer -
Nick Hristov -
Noah M. Daniels -
Ralph Pöllath -
Robert Ullrey -
Steve Lianoglou
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Todd Boland