Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison profharrison@gmail.com wrote:
You are so right, Gerd. The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
Jenny
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- dc
David Clark dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
"Alan does not owe anybody anything." -> "Buy TextMate 1 and get TextMate 2 for free when out"
Yes he does. He promised TM2 for TM1 customers. He did not say "if TM2" but "when TM2".
;-)
If TM2's dropped, then the least to say is "project cancelled"
JB
On 25 avr. 2011, at 20:00, David Clark wrote:
Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison profharrison@gmail.com wrote:
You are so right, Gerd. The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
Jenny
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- dc
David Clark dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
-- dc
David Clark 16 Harcourt St #2I Boston, MA 02116 617/859-3069 (h) 617/697-2690 (c) dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
To be honest, I rather wait another year for an excellent, stable and reliable v2. Besides... has there been a time mentioned for a release of TM2 anyway?
just my 2 ct
a happy TM1-User.
Am 25.04.2011 um 21:17 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Karageuzian:
"Alan does not owe anybody anything." -> "Buy TextMate 1 and get TextMate 2 for free when out"
Yes he does. He promised TM2 for TM1 customers. He did not say "if TM2" but "when TM2".
;-)
If TM2's dropped, then the least to say is "project cancelled"
JB
On 25 avr. 2011, at 20:00, David Clark wrote:
Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison profharrison@gmail.com wrote:
You are so right, Gerd. The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
Jenny
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- dc
David Clark dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
-- dc
David Clark 16 Harcourt St #2I Boston, MA 02116 617/859-3069 (h) 617/697-2690 (c) dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Don't you folks have more important things to worry about? I am a developer for many years, never once had the problem of mate running out of features for me, or being unreliable. I expect tm2 will be even nicer, but I am in no immediate need to upgrade it as its all working fine for me.
Please stop clogging this email list with this and get back to work :-)
On Apr 25, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Patric Zimmermann wrote:
To be honest, I rather wait another year for an excellent, stable and reliable v2. Besides... has there been a time mentioned for a release of TM2 anyway?
just my 2 ct
a happy TM1-User.
Am 25.04.2011 um 21:17 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Karageuzian:
"Alan does not owe anybody anything." -> "Buy TextMate 1 and get TextMate 2 for free when out"
Yes he does. He promised TM2 for TM1 customers. He did not say "if TM2" but "when TM2".
;-)
If TM2's dropped, then the least to say is "project cancelled"
JB
On 25 avr. 2011, at 20:00, David Clark wrote:
Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison profharrison@gmail.com wrote:
You are so right, Gerd. The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
Jenny
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- dc
David Clark dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
-- dc
David Clark 16 Harcourt St #2I Boston, MA 02116 617/859-3069 (h) 617/697-2690 (c) dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
To be honest. I'm happy with TM1; it just crashes from time to time and lacks from some key features which would make it 100% awesome...
But also... to be honest it's been a long time since I heard an official statement.
I love conversations like this. People that hope to curry favor rush to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the system listed in the requirements. Other than that, we are owed nothing.
If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL. If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market capitalism and select a competitor. The market is full of them these days.
But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2 "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. They even gave you 30 days to be sure.
I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed, due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
Thanks
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
I love conversations like this. People that hope to curry favor rush to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the system listed in the requirements. Other than that, we are owed nothing.
If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL. If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market capitalism and select a competitor. The market is full of them these days.
But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2 "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. They even gave you 30 days to be sure.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Chris O'Connor chriso1515@gmail.com wrote:
I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed, due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor
Thanks
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
I love conversations like this. People that hope to curry favor rush to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the system listed in the requirements. Other than that, we are owed nothing.
If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL. If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market capitalism and select a competitor. The market is full of them these days.
But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2 "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. They even gave you 30 days to be sure.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Chris O'Connor 347.563.2136 chriso1515@gmail.com http://www.choipaint.com/
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
yeah, how about bait and switch, a*hole.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:24 PM, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Chris O'Connor chriso1515@gmail.com wrote:
I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed, due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor
Thanks
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
I love conversations like this. People that hope to curry favor rush to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the system listed in the requirements. Other than that, we are owed nothing.
If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL. If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market capitalism and select a competitor. The market is full of them these days.
But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2 "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. They even gave you 30 days to be sure.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Chris O'Connor 347.563.2136 chriso1515@gmail.com http://www.choipaint.com/
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:
yeah, how about bait and switch, a*hole
Bait and switch is when you are promised one thing and are delivered another. Shit for brains.
you paid for TM1 and you got it, right? You didn't get vim or BBEdit or Redcar, right? Then you were not BNS'd. Moron.
Why are you all so emotionally invested in a simple market transaction?
On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:42 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:
On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:
yeah, how about bait and switch, a*hole
Bait and switch is when you are promised one thing and are delivered another. Shit for brains.
you paid for TM1 and you got it, right? You didn't get vim or BBEdit or Redcar, right? Then you were not BNS'd. Moron.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
When people say "you owe your customers" what they really mean is "you should do this or your customers are going to start getting pissed and leave you for competitors". this should be painfully obvious.
I can't believe we started a conversation about the semantics of who owes whom what. We know about caveat emptor, thank you very much. Regardless of the wording, the statement is intended towards the merchant, saying "Hey, you should do this or we will buy something else." as a fair warning, not as some demand that (for reasons I don't get) seem to outrage some of you.
a) he does not need you to leap to his defense, he'll either tick off his customers or he won't b) the demanders don't actually need you to remind them how markets work
On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:
I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed, due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
Thanks
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
I love conversations like this. People that hope to curry favor rush to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the system listed in the requirements. Other than that, we are owed nothing.
If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL. If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market capitalism and select a competitor. The market is full of them these days.
But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2 "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. They even gave you 30 days to be sure.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Chris O'Connor 347.563.2136 chriso1515@gmail.com http://www.choipaint.com/
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
Smartest thing I've heard all day.
If the developers of Textmate cared about what people thought, they would be more involved. Since they have opted at this point to not speak up, you should only assume that a need to continue the buyer/seller relationship is not a high priority for them.
Its up to each person to decide where to spend their money and their time. But its ridiculous for people to throw out legal terms without understanding their ramifications.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Patrick Minton patrick.minton@gmail.com wrote:
When people say "you owe your customers" what they really mean is "you should do this or your customers are going to start getting pissed and leave you for competitors". this should be painfully obvious.
I can't believe we started a conversation about the semantics of who owes whom what. We know about caveat emptor, thank you very much. Regardless of the wording, the statement is intended towards the merchant, saying "Hey, you should do this or we will buy something else." as a fair warning, not as some demand that (for reasons I don't get) seem to outrage some of you.
a) he does not need you to leap to his defense, he'll either tick off his customers or he won't b) the demanders don't actually need you to remind them how markets work
On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:
I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed, due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
Thanks
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack john.vilsack@activesportsinc.com wrote:
I love conversations like this. People that hope to curry favor rush to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the system listed in the requirements. Other than that, we are owed nothing.
If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL. If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market capitalism and select a competitor. The market is full of them these days.
But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2 "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. They even gave you 30 days to be sure.
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- Chris O'Connor 347.563.2136 chriso1515@gmail.com http://www.choipaint.com/
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:51 PM, John Vilsack wrote:
If the developers of Textmate cared about what people thought, they
they? I am sure there is only one.
would be more involved.
I love how people can make demands on other's time, while being so utterly clueless about the situation or ramifications or their demands.
Since they have opted at this point to not speak up, you should only assume that a need to continue the buyer/seller relationship is not a high priority for them.
this of course is moronic, and shows YOUR bias and not anyone else's intentions. It also shows your lack of understanding of the situation.
NO ONE has been, to my knowledge, PROMISED a delivery date of TM2. It was made clear that TM2 will deliver when it delivers. Everyone knows that TMS has been in Dev for several years. Did you people NOT research your purchase?
************ I am still waiting for someone to tell me what is in TM2 that you so desperately need. Just why is it so important that you get an upgrade? Are you an upgrade addict? ************
I agree with David on this. While I would love to know more, Alan has been very clear about TM2. It will be ready when it is ready and he will not be making any announcements about progress or a release date.
Alan has said that he is working on TM2 and he will live up to the upgrade commitment to his current customers. He is fixing little bugs as they appear, and he answers mail on TM1 issues; that is really all he owes his customers.
While I'm a fan of TM, I have spent sometime learning other editors and the one that has come closest to being a TM replacement is VIM. It has a huge developer community, I can install it on any computer, it works through a terminal so I can use it anywhere. The thing I've learned to like best about it is that it is all keyboard driven. I know that is an odd thing to hear from a Mac person, especially one that has been using Macs since '84. There is a pretty big learning curve to be faster in VIM than TM, but I'm definitely faster in VIM. I actually said that wrong; there is an enormous learning curve but it is great when you finally get through it.
However, VIM lacks the polish, and the plugin stability of TM. I would love to have a TM2 that is better than VIM, but until that time I'm mostly on VIM.
On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:00 PM, David Clark david@davidsaccess.com wrote:
Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison profharrison@gmail.com wrote:
You are so right, Gerd. The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
Jenny
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- dc
David Clark dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
David Clark wrote:
Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
The problem is that since TextMate 2 was announced -- which at this point is well over three years ago -- there's been very little other than maintenance releases on TM 1, and sometimes those have been few and far between. While this is a subjective measure, by my count the last substantive new features to TM 1 were added in 2008.
We were told, in June 2009, that work was 90% completed. "I use 2.0 for my own work, day-to-day, and the basic infrastructure is pretty solid," Allan wrote then. "Hopefully an alpha version will be ready before too long."
That was nearly two years ago. And it's nearly a year and a half past the followup post in January 2010 that referred to "the version I hope to release in maybe half a year."
It's kind of tough to swallow the implicit argument that now, as we head into May 2011, there still isn't anything that's releasable as an alpha. And *that's* what has people worried, I think, more than anything else.
In Nov 2011, Mr Odgaard said:
"Though I do feel bad about how 1.x has turned into abandon-ware (sand the bundles) and 2.0 into vaporware, but I am still optimistic enough about 2.0 for me to delay any serious F/OSS considerations."
http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-open-sourcing-textmate--p30133343.html
Yes. It's a part of the latest R bundle.
On Apr 25, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Mark Jackson mrcodewizard@gmail.com wrote:
You can see into the future?
On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Will wrote:
In Nov 2011, Mr Odgaard said:
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
I tend to agree with David. TM1 is the single-most useful bit of proprietary software in my research workflow, but that's beside the point. Did we purchase an application or a contract? I tend to believe the former.
Kyle H. Ambert Fellow, National Library of Medicine Department of Medical Informatics & Clinical Epidemiology Oregon Health & Science University On Apr 25, 2011 12:00 PM, "David Clark" david@davidsaccess.com wrote:
Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison profharrison@gmail.com
wrote:
You are so right, Gerd. The time has come for Allan to be open and frank
with us.
Jenny
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
-- dc
David Clark dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
-- dc
David Clark 16 Harcourt St #2I Boston, MA 02116 617/859-3069 (h) 617/697-2690 (c) dmclark ·(skype / twitter)
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John Vilsack -
Kyle. -
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Will