Appreciate "Save as" is still available in Lion, but I would like it better if it supplied the current name by default. Can I make TM2 do this?
Greg
On Dec 20, 2011, at 1:50 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:09, Greg wrote:
Appreciate "Save as" is still available in Lion, but I would like it better if it supplied the current name by default. Can I make TM2 do this?
I can add that — didn’t know it was standard.
It was pre-Lion. It was so prevalent it must have been the system default.
Lion has done away with "Save as" unfortunately for many of us. (If you've every watched a non-geek deal with "Save as" you can understand why it went away.)
Thanks for considering adding it.
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Greg web@web.knobby.ws wrote:
On Dec 20, 2011, at 1:50 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:09, Greg wrote:
Appreciate "Save as" is still available in Lion, but I would like it
better if it supplied the current name by default. Can I make TM2 do this?
I can add that — didn’t know it was standard.
It was pre-Lion. It was so prevalent it must have been the system default.
Lion has done away with "Save as" unfortunately for many of us. (If you've every watched a non-geek deal with "Save as" you can understand why it went away.)
Thanks for considering adding it.
This is actually the camel's nose I was worrying about in an earlier thread.
Apple apps in Lion no longer have the old 'Save' menu item so for example pre-Lion the file menu in TextEdit had
Close Cmd-W Save Cmd-S Save As Shift-Cmd-S
now in Lion it's:
Close Cmd-W Save A Version Cmd-S
So there's no way in TextEdit to save a replacement for the current file. Lion Apps are supposed to autosave, and if you need to un-save you can use the files version history (which apparently requires that you have access to a time machine backup, at least when I just tried it if fails since my time-machine backup is only available when I'm at home).
http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html
This is all well and good for 'non-geeks' but as a programmer the last thing I want is for my editor, or the OS rather then me to decide when it should save my source and other files.
I brought this up at a CocoaConference a couple of weeks ago here in Raleigh, and the consensus of the expert seemed to be that Apple will be driving the UI guidelines towards forcing apps to use the auto-save/version UI, perhaps making that a requirement for inclusion in the OS X App Store.
I hope not.
On 20-12-2011, at 21:55, Rick DeNatale wrote:
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Greg web@web.knobby.ws wrote: On Dec 20, 2011, at 1:50 AM, Allan Odgaard wrote:
On 19 Dec 2011, at 20:09, Greg wrote:
Appreciate "Save as" is still available in Lion, but I would like it better if it supplied the current name by default. Can I make TM2 do this?
I can add that — didn’t know it was standard.
It was pre-Lion. It was so prevalent it must have been the system default.
Lion has done away with "Save as" unfortunately for many of us. (If you've every watched a non-geek deal with "Save as" you can understand why it went away.)
Thanks for considering adding it.
This is actually the camel's nose I was worrying about in an earlier thread.
Apple apps in Lion no longer have the old 'Save' menu item so for example pre-Lion the file menu in TextEdit had
Close Cmd-W Save Cmd-S Save As Shift-Cmd-S
now in Lion it's:
Close Cmd-W Save A Version Cmd-S
So there's no way in TextEdit to save a replacement for the current file. Lion Apps are supposed to autosave, and if you need to un-save you can use the files version history (which apparently requires that you have access to a time machine backup, at least when I just tried it if fails since my time-machine backup is only available when I'm at home).
http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/auto-save.html
This is all well and good for 'non-geeks' but as a programmer the last thing I want is for my editor, or the OS rather then me to decide when it should save my source and other files.
I brought this up at a CocoaConference a couple of weeks ago here in Raleigh, and the consensus of the expert seemed to be that Apple will be driving the UI guidelines towards forcing apps to use the auto-save/version UI, perhaps making that a requirement for inclusion in the OS X App Store.
I hope not.
I agree with you. Autosave and Versions as implemented by Apple are not good ideas. With Versions you cannot see the actual differences (differences are not highlighted)..
Removal of Save As..., something that has been used for decades, is just a bad move. Autosave beyond user control means that saves can happen with wrong/incomplete/inadvertent versions. (It is quite easy to inadvertently change something in a pdf in Preview and unless the pdf is not locked this will be saved). Also autosave for big objects/documents seems to take quite some seconds hindering users.
I determine what is a version and not some automatic mechanism.
The current version of NeoOffice gives you the option of disabling AutoSave and/or Versions. I do hope that other applications, including TextMate, will provide this option too and continue to have a Save As...
</end of rant>
Berend
On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:24:03 +0100, Berend Hasselman wrote:
Autosave beyond user control means that saves can happen with wrong/incomplete/inadvertent versions.
I don't think this is a bad thing. A document may be in an incomplete or inconsistent state, but that doesn't mean I'm ok with losing that state if my app crashes. And if I want to make sure that the current "good" state is preserved, I can just do "Save a Version". I don't see that my control is lost with Auto Save.
(It is quite easy to inadvertently change something in a pdf in Preview and unless the pdf is not locked this will be saved).
Yeah, but you can always do "Revert Document" to go back.
I guess I'm in the minority here because I love Auto Save...
* I don't lose work because I forgot to hit Cmd+S every 5 minutes and my app crashed * If I need to log out or restart, I don't get a half-dozen "Do you want to save this?" dialogs * I can make a change and save the document, knowing I can revert the change if I need to
Of course, some apps (like TextMate) already support some variation of auto save, but it's nice having it standardized as an OS-supported feature *everywhere*.
Trevor
On 20 Dec 2011, at 2:55 PM, Rick DeNatale wrote:
Apple apps in Lion no longer have the old 'Save' menu item so for example pre-Lion the file menu in TextEdit had
Close Cmd-W Save Cmd-S Save As Shift-Cmd-S
now in Lion it's:
Close Cmd-W Save A Version Cmd-S
So there's no way in TextEdit to save a replacement for the current file.
Save As… has become Duplicate. Save a Copy As… has become Export.
The only differences between Duplicate and Save As… are:
1) The original document stays open.
2) You aren't asked for a name and location for the new one until you explicitly save. If you want a new name right away, do a Save.
I'm not asking you to like it, but the functionality you're missing is in fact there. The Macintosh has never fit the mental models of contemporary techies. The whole point of the platform is that users shouldn't be punished with data loss until they learn to think like the techies of their day.
Perhaps if a tool is explicitly for technical users (should LaTeX and Markdown authors have to be technical?), it should stick with the explicit saving model.
— F
On Dec 21, 2011, at 12:26 PM, Fritz Anderson wrote:
On 20 Dec 2011, at 2:55 PM, Rick DeNatale wrote:
Apple apps in Lion no longer have the old 'Save' menu item so for example pre-Lion the file menu in TextEdit had
Close Cmd-W Save Cmd-S Save As Shift-Cmd-S
now in Lion it's:
Close Cmd-W Save A Version Cmd-S
So there's no way in TextEdit to save a replacement for the current file.
Save As… has become Duplicate. Save a Copy As… has become Export.
The only differences between Duplicate and Save As… are:
The original document stays open.
You aren't asked for a name and location for the new one until you explicitly save. If you want a new name right away, do a Save.
I'm not asking you to like it, but the functionality you're missing is in fact there. The Macintosh has never fit the mental models of contemporary techies. The whole point of the platform is that users shouldn't be punished with data loss until they learn to think like the techies of their day.
Mountain Lion introduces : Keyboard shortcut for Save As: Use Command-Shift-Option-S to save a document using a different name and location.
Allan added Command-Shift-S back in for Lion. (Thank you.) But now looks like it should be mapped to Command-Shift-Option-S to be consistent and not conflict with the following.
In Mountain Lion Command-Shift-S will be Duplicate.
Apple - OS X Mountain Lion - See everything the new OS X can do.
At least Apple added back Save As, but screwed up the keyboard shortcuts in the process.
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Allan Odgaard -
Berend Hasselman -
Fritz Anderson -
Greg -
Rick DeNatale -
trevor