Hi all,
I just downloaded the PHP & Smarty syntax bundle, and found that it too was based on a dark background. Can someone please explain this seeming 'obsession' with dark backgrounds when 99% of all other apps are the basic white background with black/coloured text ???
What is it that I don't get about it ??? (I personally find it very hard to read text that way.)
Kind regards,
Mats
It's a hang over from the olden days. Nothing more :-)
Dark on light is way more readable although this does not necessarily mean black on white. A pale grey background works for me.
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:00:50 +0100, Mats Persson mats@imediatec.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I just downloaded the PHP & Smarty syntax bundle, and found that it too was based on a dark background. Can someone please explain this seeming 'obsession' with dark backgrounds when 99% of all other apps are the basic white background with black/coloured text ???
What is it that I don't get about it ??? (I personally find it very hard to read text that way.)
Kind regards,
Mats
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
It's dark times these days! ;)
Personally I think that something like background/foreground colour should be global and not per-language basis. But the syntax system will apparently get some kind of overhaul in a Future Version™ I believe...
If you don't feel like messing around too much with the language bundles you check out the ones I made from the default bundles at http://theexciter.com/ (one dark, one bright), they could spare you, or anyone else, a bit of work perhaps...
/johan
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:00:50 +0100, Mats Persson mats@imediatec.co.uk wrote:
Hi all,
I just downloaded the PHP & Smarty syntax bundle, and found that it too was based on a dark background. Can someone please explain this seeming 'obsession' with dark backgrounds when 99% of all other apps are the basic white background with black/coloured text ???
What is it that I don't get about it ??? (I personally find it very hard to read text that way.)
Kind regards,
Mats
textmate mailing list textmate@lists.macromates.com http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On 7/10-2004, at 14:34, Johan Sörensen wrote:
It's dark times these days! ;)
Hehe... Yes maybe, but actually I like the dark (not black) backgrounds. Especially on C and C++, since it allows you to use both black and white as highlight colors for syntax :-).
Personally I think that something like background/foreground colour should be global and not per-language basis. But the syntax system will apparently get some kind of overhaul in a Future Version™ I believe...
Yes but making those global can easily interfere with different languages. Of course if ALL your highlights use a black-on-white approach, maybe not... but then you want a teal background and some syntax highlight uses it as a foreground, etc. A more feasible approach, I think, is to make colors for syntax highlight in general more "global" in the sense that you can gather (named) colors in one place, and use them in all highlight bundles. I believe something like that (although not necessarily in that form) is on the idea-board for SyntaxHighlight-ng™.
On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:40:34 +0200, Sune Foldager cryo@diku.dk wrote:
On 7/10-2004, at 14:34, Johan Sörensen wrote:
It's dark times these days! ;)
Hehe... Yes maybe, but actually I like the dark (not black) backgrounds. Especially on C and C++, since it allows you to use both black and white as highlight colors for syntax :-).
Agree 100% (although I do most of my hacking in PHP and Perl ;P )
Personally I think that something like background/foreground colour should be global and not per-language basis. But the syntax system will apparently get some kind of overhaul in a Future Version™ I believe...
Yes but making those global can easily interfere with different languages. Of course if ALL your highlights use a black-on-white approach, maybe not... but then you want a teal background and some syntax highlight uses it as a foreground, etc. A more feasible approach, I think, is to make colors for syntax highlight in general more "global" in the sense that you can gather (named) colors in one place, and use them in all highlight bundles. I believe something like that (although not necessarily in that form) is on the idea-board for SyntaxHighlight-ng™.
What would be most useful for me, and seems to work out pretty well in other apps is a set of "types" of text to get colored, and global defaults for those types (this may be what you were getting at with "(named) colors") For example:
Default Background Default Foreground Comments Constants Variable names Quoted Strings Function/Subroutine names etc...
...and then the syntax-highlight-definitions would call upon those types.
Now admittedly, some of those may not apply to all types of files, and for certain types you might want to customize the colors on a per-highlight-type basis, but it'd at least let people put in their "preferred" base colors.
Was that what you were getting at, or were you talking about something different?
-b3
On 7/10-2004, at 16:20, Brent Bourgoine wrote:
What would be most useful for me, and seems to work out pretty well in other apps is a set of "types" of text to get colored, and global defaults for those types (this may be what you were getting at with "(named) colors") For example:
Default Background Default Foreground Comments Constants Variable names Quoted Strings Function/Subroutine names etc...
...and then the syntax-highlight-definitions would call upon those types. Was that what you were getting at, or were you talking about something different?
At least this is something similar to what _I_ think is a good idea in the future.. perhabs not quite in that form, but.. something like that at least :-). I'll discuss it with Allan sometime also.
I just sent a proposal to Allan about an extension to the Syntax system to allow for global repositories for styles and colors.. essentially, this would allow the syntax files to use named items for colors and styles, and the user can then change everything from dark to bright very easily. This is similar to what several people proposed here. The mail I sent to Allan is in danish so I won't quote it, but.... it's quite similar to what Brent Bourgoine suggested :-).
good taste for colors, I love the dark scheme ;)
If you don't feel like messing around too much with the language bundles you check out the ones I made from the default bundles at http://theexciter.com/ (one dark, one bright), they could spare you, or anyone else, a bit of work perhaps...
/johan
I started out wanting to create a syntax coloring system that would allow more styling in the html than the current PHP implementation while having a visible difference between the html and the template logic (Smarty). The dark background was a result of this goal. Let me explain.
The eye is far more sensitive to lighter colors than to darker ones. This means that is is easier for the eye to see different colors when the colors are brighter. Having bright colors on a light background creates poor contrast, which everyone can agree is horrid for readability.
Switching to a dark background allows the use of a color palette that is easier to distinguish. Another benefit of using light type on a dark background is that (according to our eye) light areas on a page expand. So the type gets a little bit bolder when it is light on dark (that's optically, to our eye) -- and that helps in color differentiation.
I should also state that these work for me, probably more based on my typeface choice than any sort of personal bais. (I'm using Vera Sans Mono). I've never coded on a dark background before, but I'm finding it very comfortable. I originally tried very hard to get something handsome and functional on a light background -- I failed miserably, so this is why I have a dark background.
I just downloaded the PHP & Smarty syntax bundle, and found that it too was based on a dark background. Can someone please explain this seeming 'obsession' with dark backgrounds when 99% of all other apps are the basic white background with black/coloured text ???
What is it that I don't get about it ??? (I personally find it very hard to read text that way.)
James.
James Spahr wrote:
I should also state that these work for me, probably more based on my typeface choice than any sort of personal bais. (I'm using Vera Sans Mono). I've never coded on a dark background before, but I'm finding it very comfortable. I originally tried very hard to get something handsome and functional on a light background -- I failed miserably, so this is why I have a dark background.
I'm in for the dark bg too.
It took a while for me to get used to the white background editors when I was forced to dump Turbo Pascal 6 (blue bg) and come to the real world.
But really, what was really great was Pascal 3, which had black background.
(I think they're not wrong when they say it's hang over from the old days :)
All the reasons you listed about contrast and apparent boldness are true. My eyes struggle to see any difference in color in SubEthaEdit. In TM (ruby) they are glaring.
On 8/10-2004, at 5:12, Michael Sheets wrote:
I'm in for the dark bg too.
What about letting each syntax have at least a couple themes, with semi-standard names. (Light, Dark, etc) Then you could pick a default theme 'style' to use across the syntaxes, in addition of course to complete customization.
This has already been suggested, and is planned for the next version of the syntax highlight system, as well as other new features.
On Oct 08, 2004, at 00:12, Michael Sheets wrote:
I'm in for the dark bg too.
What about letting each syntax have at least a couple themes, with semi-standard names. (Light, Dark, etc) Then you could pick a default theme 'style' to use across the syntaxes, in addition of course to complete customization.
In private email, Allan said they thought about doing themes.
But then you have three syntax files to maintain, that only differ in color values,
The best solution, as someone's suggested before, is to do like jedit: provide some common names, preferably in abundance: eg. string literal 1, 2 ,3 and 4
And them have themes that set colors for these common names. (setting color by color is a bore, it'd be ideal if people could distribute their color settings)
It should still be possible to hardcode color values or to create custom color names, for really weird languages.
Like Allan said in another mail on the list (I think), it will probably be a kind of "style sheet" where you can set various styles, that can then be used by all the syntax highlight definitions. Then switching the "style sheet" will instantly change your entire color profile. I am sure you will still be able to hardcode colors as well :-).
-
Brent Bourgoine -
Caio Chassot -
James Spahr -
Johan Sörensen -
Mats Persson -
Michael Sheets -
Oscar Sanchez Casamitjana -
Richard Sandilands -
Sune Foldager