Hi all,
I would like to start a discussion on the tabbed interface in project windows. I have some issues that I would like to point out and I will offer my opinions. However, I really just want to see what the TM community thinks about these things.
When a project window has lots of open files and there is not enough room to fit tabs across the top of the window a arrow appears next to the tabs. When you click on the arrow you are given a list of those files that do NOT have a tab. You can then click on one of those files to bring it to the front. But, then the front file does not show its tab. You can see what file you are working on by looking at the title bar but I think this is confusing.
The interface is combining a list interface with a tabbed interface and I think this could be improved. The first suggestion I have is to have all open files in the list and always show the arrow. You could have the files that have visible tabs be in bold. There are times when I just don't see an open tab and click on the arrow only to also not find the file there.
The next suggestion is to have the tabs scroll and always show the currently forward file's tab. I don't mean to add a scroll bar, just that the tabs could shift over when a file is selected from the arrow list.
Does anyone else find that this behavior could be improved? Are there other suggestions? Has this discussion already occurred? If so then many apologies.
-Eric
This issue is dear to my heart and has been discussed both in this list and on the wiki:
http://macromates.com/wiki/pmwiki?n=Suggestions.TabsVersusPullDownMenu
I think that the last sensible conclusion was that there are two kinds of users:
1. The kind that close tabs when they are done with them. 2. The kind that don't.
If you are 1) then you don't currently have a problem.
If you are 2) (like me) then there you will have issues with the current tab bar. I think the point of the tab bar is to keep a manageable number of files within easy reach. This typically means that you're working on a small subset of your project (e.g. one that fits in the tab bar). What's the point of having tabs if you have 50 of them? That's what the project drawer is for.
One thing that somebody in the list suggested was to make adding new tabs an option (like safari). This way, when you click on a project in the drawer, you would have your first tab be that file. If you click on another file, then that file will occupy that first tab.
If you have some special key (SHIFT-OPT-Click or something) then you can add the file as a tab. This is very similar to how Safari behaves. Safari doesn't automatically add every page you look at into a new tab, but allows you to decide which pages you want in a new tab. The first tab is reserved for the current non-tabbed page.
I think that Allan has this slated for version 3.4 or something. I've let it go, and since I'm not organized to close tabs after myself, I pretty much just don't use the tab bar anymore - relying instead on cmd-T and the project drawer.
Your suggestion could fit into this scheme and are certainly worthy of discussion.
Ed
On Oct 15, 2005, at 1:35 PM, Eric Knapp wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to start a discussion on the tabbed interface in project windows. I have some issues that I would like to point out and I will offer my opinions. However, I really just want to see what the TM community thinks about these things.
When a project window has lots of open files and there is not enough room to fit tabs across the top of the window a arrow appears next to the tabs. When you click on the arrow you are given a list of those files that do NOT have a tab. You can then click on one of those files to bring it to the front. But, then the front file does not show its tab. You can see what file you are working on by looking at the title bar but I think this is confusing.
The interface is combining a list interface with a tabbed interface and I think this could be improved. The first suggestion I have is to have all open files in the list and always show the arrow. You could have the files that have visible tabs be in bold. There are times when I just don't see an open tab and click on the arrow only to also not find the file there.
The next suggestion is to have the tabs scroll and always show the currently forward file's tab. I don't mean to add a scroll bar, just that the tabs could shift over when a file is selected from the arrow list.
Does anyone else find that this behavior could be improved? Are there other suggestions? Has this discussion already occurred? If so then many apologies.
-Eric
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
On Oct 15, 2005, at 16:14, Edmundo Ortega wrote:
This issue is dear to my heart and has been discussed both in this list and on the wiki:
http://macromates.com/wiki/pmwiki?n=Suggestions.TabsVersusPullDownMenu
I think that the last sensible conclusion was that there are two kinds of users:
- The kind that close tabs when they are done with them.
- The kind that don't.
Seems to me either way the tabs are a waste of precious vertical space. The only time I use the tabs is to occasionally close the open files. To navigate between files I typically use the 'Go to File...' dialog, or sometimes the project drawer.
I don't like a pull-down menu as an alternative either. I think a hierarchical 'Window' menu would be a better solution. In the olden days of NeXTSTEP the context menu actually was the windows menu. That was a quick way to navigate between windows, but I believe the context menu is quite useful for actual contextual actions (though currently under-utilized in TM), and that may be a better use for it. Either way, wether windows menu or pulldown menu, neither are well suited to quickly close a selected set of open files.
Maybe a list (actually a table) in a drawer would be a better choice. Every entry should have a close button, and an icon representing the revision control status (svn/Perforce/whatever). If the list gets to long it'll have a scroll bar, and if you want to see longer filenames you can adjust the size of the drawer.
The drawer(s) is/are pretty valuable screen real-estate too, so sooner or later there will also be a need to have a UI that selects/ switches what is visible in the drawer(s).
BTW jEdit has plugins for most of the above solutions, and as far as I can tell none has crystalized as superior. Each has many users.
Gerd
Edmundo Ortega wrote:
One thing that somebody in the list suggested was to make adding new tabs an option (like safari). This way, when you click on a project in the drawer, you would have your first tab be that file. If you click on another file, then that file will occupy that first tab.
Ooh, yes! This gets my vote!
If we're taking polls, I don't particularly like this idea. My workflow usually consists of moving "back and forth" across my project, in small waves ... and what I try to convey with that is that I work on files 1 and 2, and then I also work a bit on file 3, but I also want to go back to 1 and 2 while working on 3, not until I switch over to 4 do I want to close file 1, which I then do. However, I think it's a great thing to have an option to do either thing. Even though the Apple way isn't always to have that great customizability (compared to say Kde), an editor is a power tool for at least half powered users.
Andreas
On Oct 17, 2005, at 15:02 , Joost Schuttelaar wrote:
Edmundo Ortega wrote:
One thing that somebody in the list suggested was to make adding new tabs an option (like safari). This way, when you click on a project in the drawer, you would have your first tab be that file. If you click on another file, then that file will occupy that first tab.
Ooh, yes! This gets my vote!
--
Joost Schuttelaar
For new threads USE THIS: textmate@lists.macromates.com (threading gets destroyed and the universe will collapse if you don't) http://lists.macromates.com/mailman/listinfo/textmate
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Andreas Wahlin -
Edmundo Ortega -
Eric Knapp -
Gerd Knops -
Joost Schuttelaar