[TxMt] Re: TextMate 1 vs 2

[Randall Hand]

Well, in my (admittedly limited) experience with Textmate 1, it seems
textmate2 has fallen into the trap of "Going back to the drawing board"
in hopes of making it better, but leaving most of the "boring" pieces
behind.  I know this problem well, I've done it myself before and paid
the price.

More than anything, I just want to know if TM1 is still "Viable"?  Is
TextMate1 being actively updated and maintained?  eg, if OSX 10.8.3
dropped tomorrow and broke something, would someone fix it or would that
be the "TM2 release date" ?

If TextMate2 is still in the distant future and there's lots of work to
be done, that's great.  I just want to know that the $50 I drop on
TextMate won't be pointless if the TM2  I saw today becomes the standard
official release version tomorrow, and from what I see TM2 just isn't
suited to my workstyle.

> Travis Dunn <mailto:tdunn13 at gmail.com>
> September 20, 2012 2:44 PM
> You can make an argument that the point of the filesystem is to
> organize files/projects and that's how most editors work.
>
> I've been a textmate user for a long time and I've never used
> "projects", that's not to say that I think it is an unused feature at
> all, or that some support for those features shouldn't be brought
> back, but I don't see it as a major feature, and i certainly don't see
> it as a huge disappointment.
>
> Why not suggest a few ideas for how to bring the feature back, or make
> it better instead of threatening to switch to another editor.
>
> An ongoing post is already up here:
> http://wiki.macromates.com/Suggestions/ProjectManagementInTextMate2
>
> I don't think TM2 is a disappointment at all, and everyone has busted
> ass working on it (at least since it went open source), so maybe keep
> the negative to a minimal and try to be helpful rather than hurtful
>
> - Mom
>
>
>
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> Walter Lee Davis <mailto:waltd at wdstudio.com>
> September 20, 2012 1:32 PM
> If Chocolat ever gets the "magic clean up indenting" command, it's
> going to be very hard to stick with TextMate.
>
> Walter
>
>
>
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> dvlogic <mailto:dvlogic at gmail.com>
> September 20, 2012 1:25 PM
> Agreed 100% - I keep going back to TM1 because it just works for my
> workflow
> - TM2 has been a huge disappointment. I've also been playing with
> Sublime 2
> and feel it might have potential.
>
> -- dv
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://textmate.1073791.n5.nabble.com/TextMate-1-vs-2-tp25768p25771.html
> Sent from the textmate users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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> Jason McC. Smith <mailto:jason at ncpod.org>
> September 20, 2012 1:03 PM
> Agreed, the lack of Projects is my biggest disappointment with TM2.
>
> Yes, yes, I have seen all of the arguments on here about how 'real'
> code is organized, blah blah blah, and that's a beautiful glittery
> unicorn dream, but here's reality outside of hobbyists and startups:
>
> Code organization sucks.
>
> I work in a small shop that is mired in legacy code. Hell, it's what
> we specialize in.
>
> Our main tool is in a single massive CVS directory of a few million
> lines of code, with 47 sub-directories that analyze and transform 37
> programming languages.
>
> At any given time, I have a half dozen client projects I'm working on.
> Each one affects a small subset of the above code, and has its own
> hg-controlled client project space.
>
> With TM1, I had a *fantastic* workflow, that looked something like:
>
> 1) Make a client project .tmproject
> 2) Open up the client project space
> 3) As needed, and only as needed, open up the tool source for bug fixing
> 4) Save client project
>
> I could easily bounce between states of projects, picking them up and
> setting them aside, and each project was focused on a particular task.
> Hell, I got to the point I was creating TM projects for especially
> gnarly bugs, one per bugzilla entry. *THAT* was a godsend.
>
> Now? It's a ever-loving mess. I have one file browser open to the
> tool source, and spend way too much damned time bouncing around in
> there looking for things. Sure, I can keep them open as tabs, but
> that only works for a handful of items. It doesn't scale. I have
> another file browser open to the client project, and I have to bounce
> between the two constantly. I can't plop .tm_properties files
> willy-nilly through the system, leaving droppings everywhere. But,
> since I have to check out the same code base multiple times for
> various projects, I have to replicate those damnedable properties
> files everywhere locally, each and every time, just to maintain some
> consistency. It's an absolute mess.
>
> TM2's file browser approach may be cleaner for many people. I get
> that. I see the upsides of the approach, as a developer, and as far
> as seeing where it could go. Trust me, I *wish* I had the ability to
> wave a magic wand and make this system sanely organized.
>
> It isn't. It won't be. This is the reality in every dev shop I've
> ever been in, from 400k employees to 10 employees. This is the
> reality that I need TM2 to work well with, and it just plain doesn't.
>
> TM1 was my secret weapon, as the lone Mac user in this place. TM2 is
> a massive, massive step backwards in this one respect, and it's enough
> of one alone that I am looking at alternatives, despite having crafted
> a series of bundles for our proprietary in-house language and build
> environment.
>
> Please, for the love of god, point me to any approach that
> approximates the clean, simple, and straightforward organizational
> tool that was .tm_project files. Don't tell me the new way is better.
> It's not, in this environment. Don't tell me it has advantages. I
> see them.
>
> Tell me how to replicate what was, in my opinion, possibly the best
> practical day to day feature of TM1. After reading this list daily
> for several years, I'm still not seeing that information coming down
> the pipe.
>
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> Randall Hand <mailto:randall.hand at gmail.com>
> September 20, 2012 11:55 AM
> So I'm a bit late to the TextMate wonderfulness.. I've been using the
> 30-day trial version for the last week, and got it pretty customized to
> my liking. Project+, MissingDrawer, SVNMate, bundles, a few custom
> Templates for my C++ projects, etc. Loving it.
>
> Today I went out and got the latest TextMate2 compile from about 2 days
> ago, I believe, and wow. That's a huge step backward IMO. No
> "Projects" that I can see, just look at a Directory (which doesn't work
> for me, my Directory Structure != Project structure). No support for
> Templates either, it seems, which I just recently figured out and
> _really_ love (great to just pull in a template of my base C++ class and
> "fillin the blanks"). Plus lots of things I customized don't see to be
> there anymore, or are buried in the new "tm_properties" file.
>
> Basically, I'm trying to figure out what to do next. I was getting
> ready to buy TextMate1, but if this is what TextMate2 is going to look
> like maybe I should evaluate some other tools. Is TM1 still "alive"?
> Or are users urged to start using TM2? Am I just really missing
> something in TextMate2? I'm a C/C++ developer that also uses Arduino,
> CMake, Python, and other stuff, so things like CTags, project-specific
> environment variables, and true "Projects" are important to me.
>

-- 
Randall Hand
http://www.yeraze.com

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