Hello

" "$rawText" "
" wrapper is to get the newlines to show up in the HTML output 
window; you'll want to eliminate that.  The '| cat' here is a 
placeholder for the 'osascript' command the R bundle script is calling.  
You'll need to keep the echo command as it is in the bundle (perhaps 
adding quotes around "$rawText" if they're not already there.)  In the 
screen shot the cursor is in the middle of the word "dolore" on line 
11.  I added some punctuation to the text to make sure that special 
characters came through okay. The HTML output window shows what would be 
passed on to the command in the R bundle if I still had that installed.

I hope it works for you this time around!

-- 
Steve King
Sr. Software Engineer
Arbor Networks
+1 734 821 1461
www.arbornetworks.com 

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From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 20:14:26 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:14:26 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Does TextMate recognize TeXShop command lines?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <8115DE05-8FCC-4E81-8171-40DDCB196807@gmail.com>

The first way you can call the program you want; is to create a Macro.I don't do Applescript, but this should not be too difficult. You won't need the #!. I don't believe there is a way to record what you want to do. I could be wrong.

Second, you can edit the run commands.

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You can find this in the Bundle Editor. I believe the highlighted command is interactive. It can be edited, and make ? + R run the LaTex typesetter you want you want. (check this, as I don't do LaTex, and it could be a bit off). You might also need to create a Run Command similar to the Run BibTex command for your specific Tex engine.

NOTE: If you choose to modify a command, I STRONGLY suggest copying it (hit the double plus) and then editing the copy, so you don't lose the original command, until you are sure you want to get rid of it. I also save the original to a backup directory, just in case.

Hope that this gets you going in the right direction,
Mark

On Apr 21, 2011, at 7:31 AM, Martin Wilhelm Leidig wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm using also TeXShop (TS) which AlphaX run directly to do the TeX thing; so, one could determine TS?s actions by including a shebang-like line in the first line of the input, e.g.,
> ---
> %!TEX TS-program = pdflatexmk
> ---
> This would cause TS to use latexmk and pdflatex to typeset the document.
> 
> So, at last, the question: is there a way to get TM to use this (maybe by running TS instead of the TeX binaries directly) or is there something similar in TM?
> 
> 
> ? with regards from Ladenburg:
> 
> -MWL-
> -- 
> Martin Wilhelm Leidig, Nadlerstr. 6, D-68526 Ladenburg, Germany
> Professional TeXing, TeXnical counselling, and TeX hacking
> Dante e.V. Member #1580
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From m_hofert at web.de  Thu Apr 21 20:29:33 2011
From: m_hofert at web.de (Marius Hofert)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:29:33 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to execute all lines before the cursor position?
Message-ID: <82C5E4B0-3C9D-4A59-9594-E17F881F19B2@web.de>

Dear Steve, Dear Hans-J?rg,

many thanks for your fast replies,

I did the following:
(1) As before, I considered a copy of "R Console (R.app) -> Send Document / Selection to R.app" which I called "Send all before cursor to R.app"
(2) I put in the following line in the beginning [I realized that I want to execute lines (up to and) including the current one] instead of rawText="`cat`":
rawText="`head -$(($TM_LINE_NUMBER))`" 
(3) I then executed the command via "Bundles -> R Console (R.app) -> Send all before cursor to R.app" and it worked.
(4) of course it would be good to have this as a shortcut. As Hans-J?rg pointed out, my previous choice triggered another command. So I followed Hans-J?rg's suggestion and saw that "apple-key + E" and "apple-key + T" both not trigger other commands. So they are possible choices. However, when I chose either one as key equivalent, the simply did nothing/were ignored by textmate. What am I doing wrong? [I used precisely the same settings as in "Send Document / Selection to R.app", just changed the key equivalent. Hmmm... Do you know what's going on?

Cheers,

Marius

From m_hofert at web.de  Thu Apr 21 20:39:41 2011
From: m_hofert at web.de (Marius Hofert)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:39:41 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to execute all lines before the cursor position?
In-Reply-To: <82C5E4B0-3C9D-4A59-9594-E17F881F19B2@web.de>
References: <82C5E4B0-3C9D-4A59-9594-E17F881F19B2@web.de>
Message-ID: 

Ahh, okay, I had to switch the "scope selector" from "source.rapp-console" to "source.r" and then it worked!

Many thanks!

Marius

On 2011-04-21, at 22:29 , Marius Hofert wrote:

> Dear Steve, Dear Hans-J?rg,
> 
> many thanks for your fast replies,
> 
> I did the following:
> (1) As before, I considered a copy of "R Console (R.app) -> Send Document / Selection to R.app" which I called "Send all before cursor to R.app"
> (2) I put in the following line in the beginning [I realized that I want to execute lines (up to and) including the current one] instead of rawText="`cat`":
> rawText="`head -$(($TM_LINE_NUMBER))`" 
> (3) I then executed the command via "Bundles -> R Console (R.app) -> Send all before cursor to R.app" and it worked.
> (4) of course it would be good to have this as a shortcut. As Hans-J?rg pointed out, my previous choice triggered another command. So I followed Hans-J?rg's suggestion and saw that "apple-key + E" and "apple-key + T" both not trigger other commands. So they are possible choices. However, when I chose either one as key equivalent, the simply did nothing/were ignored by textmate. What am I doing wrong? [I used precisely the same settings as in "Send Document / Selection to R.app", just changed the key equivalent. Hmmm... Do you know what's going on?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Marius

From ceager at gmail.com  Thu Apr 21 21:05:52 2011
From: ceager at gmail.com (Christian Eager)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:05:52 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to execute all lines before the cursor position?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <82C5E4B0-3C9D-4A59-9594-E17F881F19B2@web.de>

Message-ID: 

>
> So I followed Hans-J?rg's suggestion and saw that "apple-key + E" and
> "apple-key + T" both not trigger other commands.

It?s worth noting that ?-E and ?-T are two app-level (rather than
bundle-level) shortcuts for

1. Use current selection for the Find command (complemented by ?-?-E to set
replace)
2. Open file in project, with fuzzy filename matching.

I use both of these quite often, but they?re not easily discovered.

Also, Just like you can bind to ?-S to run a command every time you save,
I?m sure if you bind to these you won?t stomp on their default behavior, but
if you work in projects often, ?-T might not be a good choice.
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From st.hennig at googlemail.com  Thu Apr 21 23:40:14 2011
From: st.hennig at googlemail.com (Stefan Hennig)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 01:40:14 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Spelling checker
Message-ID: <818E7BC6-995F-47B3-ADAA-D4A244B74934@gmail.com>

Hi TextMaters,

I'm using TextMate for a long time. However, I have to write texts in different languages (mostly English and German) and therefore, I set in the "Spelling and Grammar" dialog the option "Automatic by Language". TextMate, however, does not manage that properly. It recognizes initially only the English orthography. In order to also recognizing german spelling, I have to set this explicitly in the stated dialog. Thereafter, if I switch back to "Automatic by Language", all is fine.

Does anyone notice that behavior, too? I appreciate any remarks...

Thanks and cheers,
Stefan

From sking at arbor.net  Fri Apr 22 14:44:03 2011
From: sking at arbor.net (Steve King)
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 10:44:03 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to execute all lines before the cursor position?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <82C5E4B0-3C9D-4A59-9594-E17F881F19B2@web.de>	

Message-ID: <4DB19433.7020906@arbor.net>

You can bind to whatever keys you like, of course, but may I suggest 
using the same ?R combo that's used to invoke the command in the regular 
bundle?  If you plan to use your modified command exclusively you can 
just delete the original's keystroke.  If you plan to use both commands 
in different circumstances it's okay to have them both bound to the same 
key.  When there's a conflict like this (multiple commands bound to the 
same keystroke, all valid in the current scope) it pops up a menu of 
choices. You can select the one you want by number.  So, ?R1 would 
invoke the original command, ?R2 would invoke the modified version.

As an example, try ??A (ctrl-shift-A).  That key is used as a catch-all 
by a lot of bundles. Assuming you have any of those installed you should 
see the pop-up with a bunch of choices.

-- 
Steve King
Sr. Software Engineer
Arbor Networks
+1 734 821 1461
www.arbornetworks.com 

From rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 21:10:34 2011
From: rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com (Rodrigo Ruiz)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 18:10:34 -0300
Subject: [TxMt] How to compile and run a java project
Message-ID: 

Hi, I currently use Eclipse to run my java projects, but since I'll start
learning new languages (Ruby on rails), I wanted to try a more general
editor.

Is it possible to compile and run a simple "Hello world" in java with
TextMate? Without using terminal of course.
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From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 21:52:44 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 14:52:44 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to compile and run a java project
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <876C86CB-976D-42AB-A95A-C19661B5262C@gmail.com>

Yes you can compile/run Java code from TM. Not sure why you would give up the benefits of Eclipse just to use, I suppose, 1 editor.

On Apr 23, 2011, at 2:10 PM, Rodrigo Ruiz wrote:

> Hi, I currently use Eclipse to run my java projects, but since I'll start learning new languages (Ruby on rails), I wanted to try a more general editor.

From rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 23 22:29:17 2011
From: rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com (Rodrigo Ruiz)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 19:29:17 -0300
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to compile and run a java project
In-Reply-To: <876C86CB-976D-42AB-A95A-C19661B5262C@gmail.com>
References: 
	<876C86CB-976D-42AB-A95A-C19661B5262C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Cause Eclipse is ugly.

And actually I want to start learning Ruby on Rails, and don't know if it's
better to use an IDE or TextMate.

On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:

> Yes you can compile/run Java code from TM. Not sure why you would give up
> the benefits of Eclipse just to use, I suppose, 1 editor.
>
> On Apr 23, 2011, at 2:10 PM, Rodrigo Ruiz wrote:
>
> > Hi, I currently use Eclipse to run my java projects, but since I'll start
> learning new languages (Ruby on rails), I wanted to try a more general
> editor.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>
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From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 03:16:22 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 20:16:22 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to compile and run a java project
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<876C86CB-976D-42AB-A95A-C19661B5262C@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <4487076A-3AAC-4DB3-A044-51EB214B288A@gmail.com>

Text Editor is IMO the best way to learn a new language.

On Apr 23, 2011, at 3:29 PM, Rodrigo Ruiz wrote:

> Cause Eclipse is ugly.

From rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 03:40:15 2011
From: rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com (Rodrigo Ruiz)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 00:40:15 -0300
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to compile and run a java project
In-Reply-To: <4487076A-3AAC-4DB3-A044-51EB214B288A@gmail.com>
References: 
	<876C86CB-976D-42AB-A95A-C19661B5262C@gmail.com>

	<4487076A-3AAC-4DB3-A044-51EB214B288A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Why is that?

And does TextMate shows typing mistakes? like forgetting a ";" or typing
something like Systtem.out.pritnln()?

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Mark Jackson wrote:

> Text Editor is IMO the best way to learn a new language.
>
> On Apr 23, 2011, at 3:29 PM, Rodrigo Ruiz wrote:
>
> > Cause Eclipse is ugly.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>
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From pickhardt at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 03:58:45 2011
From: pickhardt at gmail.com (Jeff Pickhardt)
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2011 20:58:45 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Run a makefile on save?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Ping?  Someone has to have set this up for their projects...

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Jeff Pickhardt wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Is there a good way tell Textmate to automatically run a makefile for a
> project upon save?  Or a tutorial for setting this up?  I am having trouble
> finding one.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
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From mitchell.amihod at gmail.com  Sun Apr 24 04:38:37 2011
From: mitchell.amihod at gmail.com (Mitchell Amihod)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 00:38:37 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Run a makefile on save?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: 

Hi.

You could make a bundle a command mapped to CMD-S which you can set to
save the file, and run a command - which in this case would run your
makefile .

m
>> Is there a good way tell Textmate to automatically run a makefile for a
>> project upon save?? Or a tutorial for setting this up?? I am having trouble
>> finding one.

From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 06:37:01 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 23:37:01 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to compile and run a java project
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<876C86CB-976D-42AB-A95A-C19661B5262C@gmail.com>

	<4487076A-3AAC-4DB3-A044-51EB214B288A@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <8FEA568F-F0AA-410A-97DB-6F99409C6352@gmail.com>

On Apr 23, 2011, at 8:40 PM, Rodrigo Ruiz wrote:

> Why is that?

With a Text Editor you are forced to type in everything. Some editors (like BBEdit) are similar to IDEs and will popup suggestions; I think they make it more difficult to actually learn the language. With TM, you don't have the auto-popup (you can pull up suggestions, but you have to manually trigger them). Later you can start using the tab triggers and the manual (?+?+T) selection to save time adding code you already understand.

> 
> And does TextMate shows typing mistakes? like forgetting a ";" or typing something like Systtem.out.pritnln()?

No. Unlike Eclipse, it does not do that. You can however edit the bundle and make it do that, I just don't see much use in that (it's a big job) as the debugger will pick it up, anyway. This is one of the reasons that Text Editors have a smaller footprint and are faster than IDEs.

If you have your tab triggers set up correctly, you will not have this problem often. As an example I have set up ?-?-? to add a new line and terminus specific to the language (e.g ; in PERL). I make it a habit to terminate ALL lines even if it's redundant. Some IDEs do this for you, I think it's a bad habit to get into. Which takes us back to a text editor IMO being a better way to learn.

From rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 12:27:22 2011
From: rodrigo.ruiz7 at gmail.com (Rodrigo Ruiz)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:27:22 -0300
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to compile and run a java project
In-Reply-To: <8FEA568F-F0AA-410A-97DB-6F99409C6352@gmail.com>
References: 
	<876C86CB-976D-42AB-A95A-C19661B5262C@gmail.com>

	<4487076A-3AAC-4DB3-A044-51EB214B288A@gmail.com>

	<8FEA568F-F0AA-410A-97DB-6F99409C6352@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

How do I do auto-completion with TextMate? just a simple tab?

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:37 AM, Mark Jackson wrote:

> On Apr 23, 2011, at 8:40 PM, Rodrigo Ruiz wrote:
>
> > Why is that?
>
> With a Text Editor you are forced to type in everything. Some editors (like
> BBEdit) are similar to IDEs and will popup suggestions; I think they make it
> more difficult to actually learn the language. With TM, you don't have the
> auto-popup (you can pull up suggestions, but you have to manually trigger
> them). Later you can start using the tab triggers and the manual (?+?+T)
> selection to save time adding code you already understand.
>
> >
> > And does TextMate shows typing mistakes? like forgetting a ";" or typing
> something like Systtem.out.pritnln()?
>
> No. Unlike Eclipse, it does not do that. You can however edit the bundle
> and make it do that, I just don't see much use in that (it's a big job) as
> the debugger will pick it up, anyway. This is one of the reasons that Text
> Editors have a smaller footprint and are faster than IDEs.
>
> If you have your tab triggers set up correctly, you will not have this
> problem often. As an example I have set up ?-?-? to add a new line and
> terminus specific to the language (e.g ; in PERL). I make it a habit to
> terminate ALL lines even if it's redundant. Some IDEs do this for you, I
> think it's a bad habit to get into. Which takes us back to a text editor IMO
> being a better way to learn.
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>
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From textmate at luminated.net  Mon Apr 25 13:43:35 2011
From: textmate at luminated.net (Phil)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:43:35 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Python Bundles
Message-ID: 

Hi!
I am considering TextMate for my Python development, comparing it to
Emacs/Vim, WingIDE, and Eclipse/PyDev and such.

Using the official Python bundle I seem to only get completion on
commands, not lookup of methods on the object at the cursor. I think I
got this working in the Ropy bundle (Ctrl+p for completion), both rope
and ropeide is installed in Python. But I can't seem to get
definitions of methods and functions by pressing Ctrl+] (Ropy) and
using F3 and ^H (Python Bundle), I get only module and function defs,
not methods.

(Maybe getting method defs easily popping up isn't vital, but as a
Python n00b, I find it very convenient.)

So, which bundles is recommended by you Python&TextMate 1337 guys? :)

Right now I find myself switching back and forth between Emacs and
TextMate. TextMate is slick and .. cute, but I get completion and defs
of methods and everything in Emacs ... (WingIDE is nice, but
expensive.)

-- 
Phil

From layotl at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 17:21:02 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:21:02 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Python Bundles
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4DB5AD7E.7030307@gmail.com>

Phil wrote:

> Using the official Python bundle I seem to only get completion on
> commands, not lookup of methods on the object at the cursor.

You'll need to install both ropy at a system-wide level and the 
textmate-ropy bundle to get this, but it worked for me. To install ropy, 
just go to a terminal prompt and type

sudo easy_install ropy

Then to install the textmate-ropy bundle, you'll need to check it out of 
Subversion, apparently. Again at the shell prompt:

svn co http://textmate-ropy.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ textmate-ropy

(I presume you know Subversion, but if you don't, that creates a 
"textmate-ropy" directory.) Then just double-click on the Ropy.tmbundle 
file that will be in the textmate-rope directory you've created.

The autocompletion command for TM-Ropy appears to be ^P; ^] will take 
you to the definition of a method.

Having said all this, this is actually the first time I've used Ropy! I 
tend to keep a Ctags file up to date for my projects using the "TM 
Ctags" bundle, which gives me the ^] equivalent for nearly all 
languages. (There are two Ctags bundles, but in my experience the other 
one doesn't work.) The autocompletion that this bundle provides looks a 
little barebones to me but I guess it could be cool.

I will say that if you get used to Emacs -- I never quite have -- it 
does do really well with dynamic languages like Python and Ruby. I've 
tried to switch away from TextMate to several other coding environments 
but keep ending up back here, though; despite my frustration with a few 
misfeatures and concerns about the program's future development status, 
once you really start taking advantage of its power it's awfully hard to 
leave.

-- 
Watts Martin 

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From gerti-textmate at bitart.com  Mon Apr 25 17:29:56 2011
From: gerti-textmate at bitart.com (Gerd Knops)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:29:56 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
Message-ID: 

Hi Allan,

I think your customers deserve on honest assessment of what is going on.

Gerd

From profharrison at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 17:34:39 2011
From: profharrison at gmail.com (Jenny Harrison)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 10:34:39 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

You are so right, Gerd.  The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us. 

Jenny

From david at davidsaccess.com  Mon Apr 25 19:00:02 2011
From: david at davidsaccess.com (David Clark)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:00:02 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

Alan does not owe anybody anything.

If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison  wrote:
> You are so right, Gerd. ?The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
>
> Jenny
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

--
dc

David Clark
dmclark ?(skype / twitter)

-- 
dc

David Clark
16 Harcourt St #2I
Boston, MA 02116
617/859-3069 (h)
617/697-2690 (c)
dmclark ?(skype / twitter)

From karageuzian.jb at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 19:17:27 2011
From: karageuzian.jb at gmail.com (Jean-Baptiste Karageuzian)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:17:27 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

"Alan does not owe anybody anything." -> "Buy TextMate 1 and get TextMate 2 for free when out"

Yes he does. He promised TM2 for TM1 customers. He did not say "if TM2" but "when TM2". 

;-)

If TM2's dropped, then the least to say is "project cancelled"

JB

On 25 avr. 2011, at 20:00, David Clark wrote:

> Alan does not owe anybody anything.
> 
> If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
> 
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison  wrote:
>> You are so right, Gerd.  The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
>> 
>> Jenny
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> dc
> 
> David Clark
> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> dc
> 
> David Clark
> 16 Harcourt St #2I
> Boston, MA 02116
> 617/859-3069 (h)
> 617/697-2690 (c)
> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From Patric.Zimmermann at physik.tu-berlin.de  Mon Apr 25 19:22:48 2011
From: Patric.Zimmermann at physik.tu-berlin.de (Patric Zimmermann)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:22:48 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>

To be honest, I rather wait another year for an excellent, stable and reliable v2.
Besides... has there been a time mentioned for a release of TM2 anyway?

just my 2 ct

a happy TM1-User.

Am 25.04.2011 um 21:17 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Karageuzian:

> "Alan does not owe anybody anything." -> "Buy TextMate 1 and get TextMate 2 for free when out"
> 
> Yes he does. He promised TM2 for TM1 customers. He did not say "if TM2" but "when TM2". 
> 
> ;-)
> 
> If TM2's dropped, then the least to say is "project cancelled"
> 
> JB
> 
> On 25 avr. 2011, at 20:00, David Clark wrote:
> 
>> Alan does not owe anybody anything.
>> 
>> If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison  wrote:
>>> You are so right, Gerd.  The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
>>> 
>>> Jenny
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> textmate mailing list
>>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> dc
>> 
>> David Clark
>> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> dc
>> 
>> David Clark
>> 16 Harcourt St #2I
>> Boston, MA 02116
>> 617/859-3069 (h)
>> 617/697-2690 (c)
>> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From erik.scheirer at illume.org  Mon Apr 25 19:27:49 2011
From: erik.scheirer at illume.org (erik scheirer)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:27:49 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: 

Don't you folks have more important things to worry about? I am a developer for many years, never once had the problem of mate running out of features for me, or being unreliable. I expect tm2 will be even nicer, but I am in no immediate need to upgrade it as its all working fine for me.

Please stop clogging this email list with this and get back to work :-)

On Apr 25, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Patric Zimmermann wrote:

> To be honest, I rather wait another year for an excellent, stable and reliable v2.
> Besides... has there been a time mentioned for a release of TM2 anyway?
> 
> just my 2 ct
> 
> a happy TM1-User.
> 
> 
> Am 25.04.2011 um 21:17 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Karageuzian:
> 
>> "Alan does not owe anybody anything." -> "Buy TextMate 1 and get TextMate 2 for free when out"
>> 
>> Yes he does. He promised TM2 for TM1 customers. He did not say "if TM2" but "when TM2". 
>> 
>> ;-)
>> 
>> If TM2's dropped, then the least to say is "project cancelled"
>> 
>> JB
>> 
>> On 25 avr. 2011, at 20:00, David Clark wrote:
>> 
>>> Alan does not owe anybody anything.
>>> 
>>> If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison  wrote:
>>>> You are so right, Gerd.  The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
>>>> 
>>>> Jenny
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> textmate mailing list
>>>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>>>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> dc
>>> 
>>> David Clark
>>> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> dc
>>> 
>>> David Clark
>>> 16 Harcourt St #2I
>>> Boston, MA 02116
>>> 617/859-3069 (h)
>>> 617/697-2690 (c)
>>> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> textmate mailing list
>>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 

From bhh at xs4all.nl  Mon Apr 25 19:28:10 2011
From: bhh at xs4all.nl (Berend Hasselman)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:28:10 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 25-04-2011, at 19:29, Gerd Knops wrote:

> Hi Allan,
> 
> I think your customers deserve on honest assessment of what is going on.

I said this on 18-08-2010 in reply to a similar post:

There are plans. Work is being done. It will be ready when it's ready.

We wait.
We don't discuss the subject.
We enjoy and use what we've got which is extremely good.

/Berend

From martinhess at me.com  Mon Apr 25 19:28:43 2011
From: martinhess at me.com (Martin Hess)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 19:28:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <25977a5d-c83c-e732-d307-ce910e2e0a75@me.com>

I agree with David on this. While I would love to know more, Alan has been very clear about TM2. It will be ready when it is ready and he will not be making any announcements about progress or a release date.

Alan has said that he is working on TM2 and he will live up to the upgrade commitment to his current customers. He is fixing little bugs as they appear, and he answers mail on TM1 issues; that is really all he owes his customers.?

While I'm a fan of TM, I have spent sometime learning other editors and the one that has come closest to being a TM replacement is VIM. It has a huge developer community, I can install it on any computer, it works through a terminal so I can use it anywhere. The thing I've learned to like best about it is that it is all keyboard driven. I know that is an odd thing to hear from a Mac person, especially one that has been using Macs since '84. There is a pretty big learning curve to be faster in VIM than TM, but I'm definitely faster in VIM. I actually said that wrong; there is an enormous learning curve but it is great when you finally get through it.

However, VIM lacks the polish, and the plugin stability of TM. I would love to have a TM2 that is better than VIM, but until that time I'm mostly on VIM.

On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:00 PM, David Clark  wrote:

Alan does not owe anybody anything.

If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison  wrote:
> You are so right, Gerd. ?The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
>
> Jenny
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

--
dc

David Clark
dmclark ?(skype / twitter)

-- 
dc

David Clark
16 Harcourt St #2I
Boston, MA 02116
617/859-3069 (h)
617/697-2690 (c)
dmclark ?(skype / twitter)

_______________________________________________
textmate mailing list
textmate at lists.macromates.com
http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
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From kuroir at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 19:29:59 2011
From: kuroir at gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Mario_=22Kuroir=22_Ricalde?=)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:29:59 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
Message-ID: <8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

To be honest. I'm happy with TM1; it just crashes from time to time and lacks from some key features which would make it 100% awesome...

But also... to be honest it's been a long time since I heard an official statement. 
-- 
Mario "Kuroir" Ricalde
+1 ?(415) 800-415-4?

On Monday, April 25, 2011 at 2:22 PM, Patric Zimmermann wrote:
To be honest, I rather wait another year for an excellent, stable and reliable v2.
> Besides... has there been a time mentioned for a release of TM2 anyway?
> 
> just my 2 ct
> 
> a happy TM1-User.
> 
> 
> Am 25.04.2011 um 21:17 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Karageuzian:
> 
> > "Alan does not owe anybody anything." -> "Buy TextMate 1 and get TextMate 2 for free when out"
> > 
> > Yes he does. He promised TM2 for TM1 customers. He did not say "if TM2" but "when TM2". 
> > 
> > ;-)
> > 
> > If TM2's dropped, then the least to say is "project cancelled"
> > 
> > JB
> > 
> > On 25 avr. 2011, at 20:00, David Clark wrote:
> > 
> > > Alan does not owe anybody anything.
> > > 
> > > If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
> > > 
> > > On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison  wrote:
> > > > You are so right, Gerd. The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us.
> > > > 
> > > > Jenny
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > textmate mailing list
> > > > textmate at lists.macromates.com
> > > > http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > dc
> > > 
> > > David Clark
> > > dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > dc
> > > 
> > > David Clark
> > > 16 Harcourt St #2I
> > > Boston, MA 02116
> > > 617/859-3069 (h)
> > > 617/697-2690 (c)
> > > dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > textmate mailing list
> > > textmate at lists.macromates.com
> > > http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > textmate mailing list
> > textmate at lists.macromates.com
> > http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
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From john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com  Mon Apr 25 19:46:55 2011
From: john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com (John Vilsack)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:46:55 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

I love conversations like this.  People that hope to curry favor rush
to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY
ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of
software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support
contract that the developer is in grave violation of.

We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided
us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the
system listed in the requirements.  Other than that, we are owed
nothing.

If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL.
If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and
release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market
capitalism and select a competitor.  The market is full of them these
days.

But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2
"might" be out there, then you are an idiot.  They even gave you 30
days to be sure.

From bmf at email.arizona.edu  Mon Apr 25 19:53:20 2011
From: bmf at email.arizona.edu (Brandon M Fryslie)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 12:53:20 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
Message-ID: 

Alan does not owe anybody anything.
If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.

No, he does not but since it has been almost 2 years since his last update
on the subject (which I've read 10x) he could drop a line with a little
update.  What I'm concerned about is bundle development.  I feel like the
bundles are going to take a while to populate the new version, so even after
it drops it's going to take time before it is really as useful as 1x.

Further more, without any information on bundle backward compatibility (my
gut says 'no', at least without modification) does it make sense to invest a
lot of time and resources on developing new bundles for 1x?  If 2x is gone
for good, yes.  If 2x is a year or two away, yes.  But without knowing, I
find it hard to devote the time from my busy schedule.

I know Allan says he isn't really concerned with things like that, and I
tend to agree that they aren't his problems to worry about if he doesn't
want to.  However, a lot of people do a lot of 'real work' with TextMate and
a little information would go a long way towards helping everyone prepare
for the future.

As always, Allan, please keep up the good work.  I know the feeling of
wanting to perfect a project, and at the end of the day this is your project
and you can do with it what you like.  Good luck with everything, I'm sure
you're having a blast developing it. :)

Thanks for everything,
Brandon
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From timothy.c.bates at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 19:59:01 2011
From: timothy.c.bates at gmail.com (Timothy Bates)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 20:59:01 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <700F8335-A1E5-451A-A3A8-CE151F9D1FBB@gmail.com>

I 'm given to understand the TM1 bundles will work, though they might not be able to take full advantage of new features without work.

So, I am keeping on working on bundles because i can benefit now, and there's not future hit to speak of: Edit and contribute away!
best, tim

On 25 Apr 2011, at 20:53, Brandon M Fryslie wrote:
> What I'm concerned about is bundle development.  I feel like the bundles are going to take a while to populate the new version, so even after it drops it's going to take time before it is really as useful as 1x. 

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From dmilith at verknowsys.com  Mon Apr 25 20:08:03 2011
From: dmilith at verknowsys.com (Daniel Dettlaff)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:08:03 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Problem with site
	http://blog.macromates.com/2009/working-on-it/
Message-ID: <9605583.211303762080190.JavaMail.root@draCore>

Google Chrome 10:

http://blog.macromates.com/2009/working-on-it/

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From layotl at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:11:09 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:11:09 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>	

Message-ID: <4DB5D55D.20005@gmail.com>

David Clark wrote:

> Alan does not owe anybody anything.
>
> If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.

The problem is that since TextMate 2 was announced -- which at this 
point is well over three years ago -- there's been very little other 
than maintenance releases on TM 1, and sometimes those have been few and 
far between. While this is a subjective measure, by my count the last 
substantive new features to TM 1 were added in 2008.

We were told, in June 2009, that work was 90% completed. "I use 2.0 for 
my own work, day-to-day, and the basic infrastructure is pretty solid," 
Allan wrote then. "Hopefully an alpha version will be ready before too 
long."

That was nearly two years ago. And it's nearly a year and a half past 
the followup post in January 2010 that referred to "the version I hope 
to release in maybe half a year."

It's kind of tough to swallow the implicit argument that now, as we head 
into May 2011, there still isn't anything that's releasable as an alpha. 
And *that's* what has people worried, I think, more than anything else.

-- 
Watts Martin 

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From john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com  Mon Apr 25 20:12:14 2011
From: john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com (John Vilsack)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

When a girl wouldn't call me back after two years, that generally
wasn't an appropriate time to bombard her with demands to keep me
posted on her social life's status.

From ambertk at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:15:00 2011
From: ambertk at gmail.com (Kyle.)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:15:00 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

I tend to agree with David. TM1 is the single-most useful bit of proprietary
software in my research workflow, but that's beside the point. Did we
purchase an application or a contract? I tend to believe the former.

Kyle H. Ambert
Fellow, National Library of Medicine
Department of Medical Informatics & Clinical Epidemiology
Oregon Health & Science University
On Apr 25, 2011 12:00 PM, "David Clark"  wrote:
> Alan does not owe anybody anything.
>
> If you are unhappy with TM1 use another application - end of story.
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Jenny Harrison 
wrote:
>> You are so right, Gerd.  The time has come for Allan to be open and frank
with us.
>>
>> Jenny
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>
>
>
>
> --
> dc
>
> David Clark
> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
>
>
>
> --
> dc
>
> David Clark
> 16 Harcourt St #2I
> Boston, MA 02116
> 617/859-3069 (h)
> 617/697-2690 (c)
> dmclark ?(skype / twitter)
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
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From chriso1515 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:17:51 2011
From: chriso1515 at gmail.com (Chris O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:17:51 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed,
due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a
minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice
certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected
well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the
blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.

Thanks

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack
 wrote:
> I love conversations like this. ?People that hope to curry favor rush
> to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY
> ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of
> software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support
> contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
>
> We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided
> us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the
> system listed in the requirements. ?Other than that, we are owed
> nothing.
>
> If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL.
> If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and
> release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market
> capitalism and select a competitor. ?The market is full of them these
> days.
>
> But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2
> "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. ?They even gave you 30
> days to be sure.
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

-- 
Chris O'Connor
347.563.2136
chriso1515 at gmail.com
http://www.choipaint.com/

From john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com  Mon Apr 25 20:24:46 2011
From: john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com (John Vilsack)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:24:46 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Chris O'Connor  wrote:
> I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed,
> due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a
> minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice
> certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected
> well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the
> blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor

>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack
>  wrote:
>> I love conversations like this. ?People that hope to curry favor rush
>> to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY
>> ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of
>> software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support
>> contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
>>
>> We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided
>> us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the
>> system listed in the requirements. ?Other than that, we are owed
>> nothing.
>>
>> If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL.
>> If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and
>> release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market
>> capitalism and select a competitor. ?The market is full of them these
>> days.
>>
>> But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2
>> "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. ?They even gave you 30
>> days to be sure.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris O'Connor
> 347.563.2136
> chriso1515 at gmail.com
> http://www.choipaint.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

From chriso1515 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:28:01 2011
From: chriso1515 at gmail.com (Chris O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:28:01 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

yeah, how about bait and switch, a*hole.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 4:24 PM, John Vilsack
 wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Chris O'Connor  wrote:
>> I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed,
>> due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a
>> minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice
>> certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected
>> well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the
>> blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack
>>  wrote:
>>> I love conversations like this. ?People that hope to curry favor rush
>>> to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY
>>> ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of
>>> software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support
>>> contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
>>>
>>> We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided
>>> us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the
>>> system listed in the requirements. ?Other than that, we are owed
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL.
>>> If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and
>>> release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market
>>> capitalism and select a competitor. ?The market is full of them these
>>> days.
>>>
>>> But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2
>>> "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. ?They even gave you 30
>>> days to be sure.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> textmate mailing list
>>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris O'Connor
>> 347.563.2136
>> chriso1515 at gmail.com
>> http://www.choipaint.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

-- 
Chris O'Connor
347.563.2136
chriso1515 at gmail.com
http://www.choipaint.com/

From patrick.minton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:30:05 2011
From: patrick.minton at gmail.com (Patrick Minton)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:30:05 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <02E5309E-6E5B-4301-B4F7-F9C2367E22E2@gmail.com>

When people say "you owe your customers" what they really mean is "you should do this or your customers are going to start getting pissed and leave you for competitors".  this should be painfully obvious.

I can't believe we started a conversation about the semantics of who owes whom what.  We know about caveat emptor, thank you very much.  Regardless of the wording, the statement is intended towards the merchant, saying "Hey, you should do this or we will buy something else." as a fair warning, not as some demand that (for reasons I don't get) seem to outrage some of you.

a) he does not need you to leap to his defense, he'll either tick off his customers or he won't
b) the demanders don't actually need you to remind them how markets work

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:

> I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed,
> due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a
> minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice
> certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected
> well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the
> blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack
>  wrote:
>> I love conversations like this.  People that hope to curry favor rush
>> to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY
>> ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of
>> software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support
>> contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
>> 
>> We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided
>> us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the
>> system listed in the requirements.  Other than that, we are owed
>> nothing.
>> 
>> If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL.
>> If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and
>> release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market
>> capitalism and select a competitor.  The market is full of them these
>> days.
>> 
>> But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2
>> "might" be out there, then you are an idiot.  They even gave you 30
>> days to be sure.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris O'Connor
> 347.563.2136
> chriso1515 at gmail.com
> http://www.choipaint.com/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:37:45 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:37:45 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:

> yeah, how about bait and switch, a*hole.

How about libel, a*hole

From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:42:35 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:42:35 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:

> yeah, how about bait and switch, a*hole

Bait and switch is when you are promised one thing and are delivered another. Shit for brains.

you paid for TM1 and you got it, right? You didn't get vim or BBEdit or Redcar, right? Then you were not BNS'd. Moron.

From joao at nogordio.com  Mon Apr 25 20:48:01 2011
From: joao at nogordio.com (Joao Mesquita)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 21:48:01 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <92AC15D0-1D7F-4922-AE93-F5B104EE5D9E@nogordio.com>

Hi Gerd,

Why the question in the first place?

Curiosity or there's something you can't do with TM1?

On Apr 25, 2011, at 6:29 PM, Gerd Knops wrote:

> Hi Allan,
> 
> I think your customers deserve on honest assessment of what is going on.
> 
> Gerd
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From willthemoor at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:50:31 2011
From: willthemoor at gmail.com (Will)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:50:31 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <4DB5D55D.20005@gmail.com>
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<4DB5D55D.20005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

In Nov 2011, Mr Odgaard said:

"Though I do feel bad about how 1.x has turned into abandon-ware (sand    the bundles) and 2.0 into vaporware, but I am still optimistic enough about 2.0 for me to delay any serious F/OSS considerations."

http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-open-sourcing-textmate--p30133343.html

From john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com  Mon Apr 25 20:51:29 2011
From: john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com (John Vilsack)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:51:29 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <02E5309E-6E5B-4301-B4F7-F9C2367E22E2@gmail.com>
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

	<02E5309E-6E5B-4301-B4F7-F9C2367E22E2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Smartest thing I've heard all day.

If the developers of Textmate cared about what people thought, they
would be more involved.  Since they have opted at this point to not
speak up, you should only assume that a need to continue the
buyer/seller relationship is not a high priority for them.

Its up to each person to decide where to spend their money and their
time.  But its ridiculous for people to throw out legal terms without
understanding their ramifications.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Patrick Minton
 wrote:
> When people say "you owe your customers" what they really mean is "you should do this or your customers are going to start getting pissed and leave you for competitors". ?this should be painfully obvious.
>
> I can't believe we started a conversation about the semantics of who owes whom what. ?We know about caveat emptor, thank you very much. ?Regardless of the wording, the statement is intended towards the merchant, saying "Hey, you should do this or we will buy something else." as a fair warning, not as some demand that (for reasons I don't get) seem to outrage some of you.
>
> a) he does not need you to leap to his defense, he'll either tick off his customers or he won't
> b) the demanders don't actually need you to remind them how markets work
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:
>
>> I bought TM under the impression that it was being actively developed,
>> due in no small part to the notice that TM2 would require leopard at a
>> minimum. Allan may not "owe" anyone anything, but that notice
>> certainly implied that TM2 was already well underway, and was expected
>> well before now. Also, you can't blame folks getting curious when the
>> blog has been *so* silent for many months, yet again.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 3:46 PM, John Vilsack
>>  wrote:
>>> I love conversations like this. ?People that hope to curry favor rush
>>> to the defense of the oppressed business owner, yelling "LEAVE BRITNEY
>>> ALONE!" while others indignantly proclaim that purchasing a piece of
>>> software somehow entitles you to some sort of protracted support
>>> contract that the developer is in grave violation of.
>>>
>>> We all entered into the same legally binding agreement that provided
>>> us with a version of software that would work (at the time) with the
>>> system listed in the requirements. ?Other than that, we are owed
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> If Lion comes out tomorrow and Textmate doesn't work, we are SOL.
>>> If Textmate doesn't meet your requirements for transparency and
>>> release cycles, by all means exercises your rights of free market
>>> capitalism and select a competitor. ?The market is full of them these
>>> days.
>>>
>>> But if you bought Textmate solely based on the fact that Textmate 2
>>> "might" be out there, then you are an idiot. ?They even gave you 30
>>> days to be sure.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> textmate mailing list
>>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris O'Connor
>> 347.563.2136
>> chriso1515 at gmail.com
>> http://www.choipaint.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

From textmate at luminated.net  Mon Apr 25 20:51:32 2011
From: textmate at luminated.net (Phil)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 22:51:32 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Python Bundles
In-Reply-To: <4DB5AD7E.7030307@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4DB5AD7E.7030307@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Watts Martin  wrote:
>> Using the official Python bundle I seem to only get completion on
>> commands, not lookup of methods on the object at the cursor.
>
> You'll need to install both ropy at a system-wide level and the
> textmate-ropy bundle to get this, but it worked for me. To install ropy,
> just go to a terminal prompt and type
>
> sudo easy_install ropy

pip or easy_install does not seem to find ropy:
"No local packages or download links found for ropy"

It could be this: http://code.google.com/p/ropy/downloads/list
But the zip file there is not a regular "python setyp.py install" installation.
And it's a web server-thingy ... I assumed textmate-ropy used rope
and/or ropeide ... (which is installed as root on the system)

> Then to install the textmate-ropy bundle, you'll need to check it out of
> Subversion, apparently. Again at the shell prompt:
>
> svn co http://textmate-ropy.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ textmate-ropy
>
> (I presume you know Subversion, but if you don't, that creates a
> "textmate-ropy" directory.) Then just double-click on the Ropy.tmbundle
> file that will be in the textmate-rope directory you've created.

Yes, this is the Ropy.tmbundle I installed. I just took "svn co" (or
"export") to ~/Library/Application\ Support/TextMate/Bundles, and
reloaded bundles in TM.

> The autocompletion command for TM-Ropy appears to be ^P; ^] will take you to
> the definition of a method.

That,'s what I thought, but only ^P works, not ^] ...
(Selecting it from the menu doesn't work either.)

> Having said all this, this is actually the first time I've used Ropy! I tend
> to keep a Ctags file up to date for my projects using the "TM Ctags" bundle,
> which gives me the ^] equivalent for nearly all languages. (There are two
> Ctags bundles, but in my experience the other one doesn't work.) The
> autocompletion that this bundle provides looks a little barebones to me but
> I guess it could be cool.

I was looking into ctags for a MacVim as IDE setup, but I seemed to
get a lot of completions of irrelevant stuff. I'm not sure if that was
the creation of the tags file that was done wrongly, or if it was the
vim plugin(s) that didn't parse intelligently or was misconfigured.
But I don't really care if it's Ropy, rope, ctags or something else, I
just want it to work nicely ... :) So with ctags, would I be able to
get method and function defs easily popping up somehow? :)

The RopeMate bundle looks nice for completions, but I don't seem to
get method definitions with this bundle.

> I will say that if you get used to Emacs -- I never quite have -- it does do
> really well with dynamic languages like Python and Ruby. I've tried to
> switch away from TextMate to several other coding environments but keep
> ending up back here, though; despite my frustration with a few misfeatures
> and concerns about the program's future development status, once you really
> start taking advantage of its power it's awfully hard to leave.

Yes, I actually got most stuff working nicely in Emacs, but I do have
some issues with it, and TextMate feels less "cluttered" ...

-- 
Phil :)

From patrick.minton at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:54:51 2011
From: patrick.minton at gmail.com (Patrick Minton)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:54:51 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

Why are you all so emotionally invested in a simple market transaction?

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:42 PM, Mark Jackson wrote:

> 
> On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Chris O'Connor wrote:
> 
>> yeah, how about bait and switch, a*hole
> 
> Bait and switch is when you are promised one thing and are delivered another. Shit for brains.
> 
> you paid for TM1 and you got it, right? You didn't get vim or BBEdit or Redcar, right? Then you were not BNS'd. Moron.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 20:57:01 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:57:01 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <92AC15D0-1D7F-4922-AE93-F5B104EE5D9E@nogordio.com>
References: 
	<92AC15D0-1D7F-4922-AE93-F5B104EE5D9E@nogordio.com>
Message-ID: <6D3CFAED-645D-4BE5-A630-C2530FE15C52@gmail.com>

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:48 PM, Joao Mesquita wrote:

> Curiosity or there's something you can't do with TM1?

Say he is using TM2.

When you don't have anything useful to do, bitching is the alternative.

From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 21:09:56 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:09:56 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<3DDEEB43-0E3F-4164-86B8-AF0B25A25ED2@physik.tu-berlin.de>
	<8378E1DF7BAC47A1BE8E39C1210142B6@gmail.com>

	<02E5309E-6E5B-4301-B4F7-F9C2367E22E2@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <22F1586B-5017-4453-89B6-D4374842841C@gmail.com>

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:51 PM, John Vilsack wrote:

> If the developers of Textmate cared about what people thought, they

they? I am sure there is only one.

> would be more involved.  

I love how people can make demands on other's time, while being so utterly clueless about the situation or ramifications or their demands.

> Since they have opted at this point to not
> speak up, you should only assume that a need to continue the
> buyer/seller relationship is not a high priority for them.

this of course is moronic, and shows YOUR bias and not anyone else's intentions. It also shows your lack of understanding of the situation.

NO ONE has been, to my knowledge, PROMISED a delivery date of TM2. It was made clear that TM2 will deliver when it delivers. Everyone knows that TMS has been in Dev for several years. Did you people NOT research your purchase?

************
I am still waiting for someone to tell me what is in TM2 that you so desperately need. Just why is it so important that you get an upgrade? Are you an upgrade addict?
************

From gerti-textmate at bitart.com  Mon Apr 25 21:12:03 2011
From: gerti-textmate at bitart.com (Gerd Knops)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 16:12:03 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <756AA97F-0AF3-421F-BD35-2618E0BA5F27@bitart.com>

Folks,

My post wasn't intended as flame bait.

I use TextMate every working day for many hours. I simply care about this the most important tool in my arsenal to be the best it can be. And at least for my workflow there is still no alternative in sight.

When it came out it was leaps and bounds ahead (or could be made so for many cases by the ingenious bundle system). But that was quite a few years ago. It is now lacking features that can't easily be added as a bundle, and are a lot of work to add as a (not really supported) plugin if even possible.

Examples are tighter integration with source control features, or integration with compilers and debuggers just to name a couple. And then there are the weaknesses that have been identified on this forum over the years.

Brandon's post shows me that I am not alone holding back on bundle or plugin development due to the looming TM2 threatening to invalidate a lot of the time and work (and therefore money) we would invest. Being a consultant that would come out of my own pocket, which isn't very deep.

So knowing if TM1 is the end of the line, or if there really is a TM2 and a rough idea when it would really come out would make TextMate a better tool for me, because I could gauge ROI better for spending time writing, updating or polishing bundles and plugins.

Allan has made a few announcements regarding TM2. I believe them to have been in good faith. They didn't work out. Life happens. I have no qualms with that.

If it's about the money, Allan should apologize for the (in hindsight ill-advised) promise of free upgrades, and move on. Many folks will complain, but I am sure that I am not alone in stating I couldn't care less if TM2 is going to be free or not.

And if work on TM2 just isn't doing it for Allan any more, I don't have a problem with that either. As said life happens, and it is to short to force oneself to work on something that no longer holds one's interest.

In that case it would still be unreasonable to ask Allan to open-source TM2. I am sure he has spent countless hours on it, and should be compensated for it. So why not let the community buy it from you with the goal of open-sourcing it? We could all pledge whatever we would be willing to pledge. If we meet Allan's number, he'd collect on the pledges and put TM2 onto github or elsewhere. Everybody wins.

Gerd

From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 21:12:07 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:12:07 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<4DB5D55D.20005@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <91A9863C-CF89-4E26-A2CA-6C68A5A3806B@gmail.com>

You can see into the future?

On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Will wrote:

> In Nov 2011, Mr Odgaard said:

From willthemoor at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 21:17:13 2011
From: willthemoor at gmail.com (Will)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:17:13 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <91A9863C-CF89-4E26-A2CA-6C68A5A3806B@gmail.com>
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>

	<4DB5D55D.20005@gmail.com>

	<91A9863C-CF89-4E26-A2CA-6C68A5A3806B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CCC7418-4AE9-4EEB-8F2B-52DC1C59C19A@gmail.com>

Yes. It's a part of the latest R bundle. 

On Apr 25, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Mark Jackson  wrote:

> You can see into the future?
> 
> 
> On Apr 25, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Will wrote:
> 
>> In Nov 2011, Mr Odgaard said:
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From bmf at email.arizona.edu  Mon Apr 25 21:48:20 2011
From: bmf at email.arizona.edu (Brandon M Fryslie)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:48:20 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
Message-ID: 

> Curiosity or there's something you can't do with TM1?

Improved completions (complete from project, etc), not crashing when editing
remote files (e.g. when using MacFusion), project-wide commands (Validate
Syntax for project, Transliterate to ASCII for project, etc), split pane
editing, more intuitive way to edit bundles & language grammars directly in
textmate (using "Edit in TextMate..." is a bit hacky), Javascript & other
improvements in the web preview (such as refresh on save and instant CSS
preview), improved code formatting/reindent, multiline regex engine, among
others.

However those are only things I *know* I want.  I'm actually more excited by
all the features I don't know I need yet.  :)  Anything that makes TextMate
more TextMate-y (such as more powerful snippets, commands, and grammars) is
fine by me.

Thanks Allan and sorry for flooding your list with useless messages...it's
just that our curiosity and excitement are constantly peaking and it just
takes one errant comment to get us all aflutter.  :)

Brandon
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From profharrison at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 21:52:24 2011
From: profharrison at gmail.com (Jenny Harrison)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:52:24 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <756AA97F-0AF3-421F-BD35-2618E0BA5F27@bitart.com>
References: 
	<756AA97F-0AF3-421F-BD35-2618E0BA5F27@bitart.com>
Message-ID: <5E08BDB3-BE03-4A21-8383-22598282BE30@gmail.com>

I am not a developer, but a heavy user of the Latex bundle in TM for about five years.  Latex users in academia who take the time to learn TM love it, and thus I believe there is a large potential group of TM purchasers for Allan.    I have the greatest admiration for his creative skills and have always enthusiastically supported him, especially when I was an active member of this discussion group.    I just want a rough idea of what to expect.   Time is a serious factor for me and the students I supervise.   Gerd mentioned some problems which I have to live with every day, and I see that other software is running circles around TM with respect to these particular problems.  For example, each time I format the source code into a pdf file, I have to wait several seconds. If the file gets long, it takes a very long time for the pdf to show itself.  If there are figures, it takes even longer.  But these are fast computers.  Why can't this be fixed?  Skim jumps around, too when it comes into focus.   I have to look away, otherwise I get distracted by the jumps, and then I have to move the page back to where I was reading before the small edit.   TeXShop cuts the formatting time dramatically and the pdf output does not jump around.  I have not used a stopwatch, but it is noticeably faster.  But I hang onto TM because of the macros and snippets.     I took the trouble to learn all the keyboard commands in the spirit of GTD, as this group taught me,  so my hands never leave the keyboard, but TM is now the block itself for efficiency.  There are other Latex editors coming out.    Should I take the time to learn one of these?  I don't mean to offend anyone by asking that question.  Would I recommend that a new student take the time to learn TM?  I guess I would not now do this.  If we just had a rough idea,  I would know how to proceed.   I can wait a little longer.    

Jenny Harrison
Professor of Mathematics
University of California, Berkeley

From ekchew at gmail.com  Mon Apr 25 22:51:02 2011
From: ekchew at gmail.com (Edward K. Chew)
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 18:51:02 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <66861EE9-E44C-4463-8535-3041D17B321B@gmail.com>

On 2011-04-25, at 5:48 PM, Brandon M Fryslie wrote:

> > Curiosity or there's something you can't do with TM1?
> 
> Improved completions (complete from project, etc), not crashing when editing remote files (e.g. when using MacFusion), project-wide commands (Validate Syntax for project, Transliterate to ASCII for project, etc), split pane editing, more intuitive way to edit bundles & language grammars directly in textmate (using "Edit in TextMate..." is a bit hacky), Javascript & other improvements in the web preview (such as refresh on save and instant CSS preview), improved code formatting/reindent, multiline regex engine, among others.

Split pane editing is at the top of the list for me. It's interesting that you mention reindent too. I keep tweaking the indent rules but they never quite do what I want. I figured I just haven't determined the right recipe yet but never considered that this may be a shortcoming of TM1. Hmm...

Another thing that would be cool would be the ultimate file compare with TextMate-style flexibility in the matching criteria, but then I'd probably be spending all my time tweaking it like with indent, so maybe not....

Ted

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From joao at nogordio.com  Mon Apr 25 23:22:05 2011
From: joao at nogordio.com (Joao Mesquita)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 00:22:05 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <66861EE9-E44C-4463-8535-3041D17B321B@gmail.com>
References: 
	<66861EE9-E44C-4463-8535-3041D17B321B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

My interpretation of Gert's reply was that his question was a frustration rant, not really a customer in rage.

Regarding features I guess everybody have their favorites. I for one would like to see improved text/source code editing capabilities like you mentioned and not so language specific. Improved bundle capabilities also would be nice.

But then again, I use TM is as a text editor that integrates well with other favorite apps of mine and not like an IDE. i.e. i will not ditch transmit even if TM2 comes with ftp built-in.

On Apr 25, 2011, at 11:51 PM, Edward K. Chew wrote:

> On 2011-04-25, at 5:48 PM, Brandon M Fryslie wrote:
> 
>> > Curiosity or there's something you can't do with TM1?
>> 
>> Improved completions (complete from project, etc), not crashing when editing remote files (e.g. when using MacFusion), project-wide commands (Validate Syntax for project, Transliterate to ASCII for project, etc), split pane editing, more intuitive way to edit bundles & language grammars directly in textmate (using "Edit in TextMate..." is a bit hacky), Javascript & other improvements in the web preview (such as refresh on save and instant CSS preview), improved code formatting/reindent, multiline regex engine, among others.
> 
> Split pane editing is at the top of the list for me. It's interesting that you mention reindent too. I keep tweaking the indent rules but they never quite do what I want. I figured I just haven't determined the right recipe yet but never considered that this may be a shortcoming of TM1. Hmm...
> 
> Another thing that would be cool would be the ultimate file compare with TextMate-style flexibility in the matching criteria, but then I'd probably be spending all my time tweaking it like with indent, so maybe not....
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

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From chrisptex at googlemail.com  Tue Apr 26 04:21:57 2011
From: chrisptex at googlemail.com (Christian Pleul)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 06:21:57 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Spelling checker
In-Reply-To: <818E7BC6-995F-47B3-ADAA-D4A244B74934@gmail.com>
References: <818E7BC6-995F-47B3-ADAA-D4A244B74934@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <395B8E82-8722-4DF2-A229-ADE395C64D97@googlemail.com>

Am 22.04.2011 um 01:40 schrieb Stefan Hennig:

> Hi TextMaters,
> 
> I'm using TextMate for a long time. However, I have to write texts in different languages (mostly English and German) and therefore, I set in the "Spelling and Grammar" dialog the option "Automatic by Language". TextMate, however, does not manage that properly. It recognizes initially only the English orthography. In order to also recognizing german spelling, I have to set this explicitly in the stated dialog. Thereafter, if I switch back to "Automatic by Language", all is fine.
> 
> Does anyone notice that behavior, too? I appreciate any remarks...

I can second that. It is not very comfortable...

--
	Christian

-We've really achieved the ideal of what I wanted Microsoft to become.-
Bill Gates, June 2008

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From dennis at screenlabor.de  Tue Apr 26 07:56:35 2011
From: dennis at screenlabor.de (Dennis Amrouche)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 09:56:35 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>
References: 
	<8731A957-DAAF-4C0B-9CCB-311D145FF0E7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Again?

I heard this 2 years ago already ;-)

Good luck!

TM2 is a bomb I am looking forward to!

Dennis

Am 25.04.2011 um 19:34 schrieb Jenny Harrison:

> You are so right, Gerd.  The time has come for Allan to be open and frank with us. 
> 
> Jenny
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 

/* -------------------------------------------------------------
screenlabor // freie media + produktion
dennis amrouche

mobil:  +49 (0)157 838 16 726
email: dennis at screenlabor.de
-------------------------------------------------------------- */

From realoreocookie at gmx.de  Tue Apr 26 08:17:31 2011
From: realoreocookie at gmx.de (Max Lein)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 10:17:31 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
Message-ID: 

Some people have mentioned valid technical problems (stale bundle development, lack of split screen, lack of speed when working with LaTeX, better version control tools support (in my case git), etc.), but I think the business aspect is even more important. 

Having read the various opinions on the matter, I'm surprised at the faction that defends Allan's admittedly bad TextMate 2 information policy. Although he has never committed to specific release dates, on several occasions Allan's comments made it appear as if at least an alpha release was within reach. Allan's apparent ansatz (whether intended or not) to simply stop talking altogether, however, is not a solution, it makes matters worse. At the very least, it has had a detrimental impact on bundle development -- and I wouldn't be surprised if prospective customers would be turned off by a homepage that still has `Why TextMate 2 won't be supported on Tiger' in its FAQ -- when people are three, soon four OS X iterations ahead. 

Why should we (as TextMate 1 users) care? Well, if this policy has an impact on business, it may endanger the future of TextMate as a whole. So yes, I think it's good that we ask every once in a while what's going on and what the status of TM2 is. Allan should regularly provide updates (not daily or weekly, but every month or two at least). If he does not have the man power necessary to make TextMate 2 into a product, he could ask the community to help out. 

From listwatch at moss.in-berlin.de  Tue Apr 26 11:16:53 2011
From: listwatch at moss.in-berlin.de (Martin Wilhelm Leidig)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:16:53 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: How to save find/replace patterns?
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: <917099DC-2D0A-4589-B5EF-71FA91BA8FAB@moss.in-berlin.de>

Am 2011-04-21 um 17:39 schrieb Carsten Hoever:
> you simply create a copy of the macro in the bundle editor and edit the shown options

The bundle ?editor? won?t let me edit macros, so one has to look up the contents of ~/Library/Application Support/TextMate/Bundles/ and fiddle around with the XML stuff inside one of the bundles found there.  And as most of my F/R patterns are prone to be adjusted for the specifics of each and every editing job, maybe just a bit, I?d have to do this frequently.

? with regards from Ladenburg:

-MWL-
-- 
Martin Wilhelm Leidig, Nadlerstr. 6, D-68526 Ladenburg, Germany
Professional TeXing, TeXnical counselling, and TeX hacking
Dante e.V. Member #1580

From bighype at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 16:45:49 2011
From: bighype at gmail.com (Mel Brands)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:45:49 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
Message-ID: 

Hi all,

I've come across another serious TM bug :(

It appears that TM modifies the contents of the pasteboard without the
user doing the ?+c. If you copy a piece of rich text (or text with
image data) and you just switch to TM so its window is frontmost and
active, TM will go ahead and just strip all rich edit out of text and
leave you with just plain text representation. You can verify this if
you use any of the pasteboard history viewers. Or say you copy a large
number of cells out of Numbers and you inadvertently ?-tab to TM, TM
will freeze while it's messing up your pasteboard data.

Anyway, modifying system-wide pasteboard without any user input is
really bad form. Will this ever be fixed or is MacVim the only
solution for now?

Mel

From josh.kehn at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 16:47:35 2011
From: josh.kehn at gmail.com (Joshua Kehn)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:47:35 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

Never really was one for copying rich text. Causes more hassles then it's worth in my opinion. 

Regards,

-Josh___________________________________________
Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn at gmail.com
http://joshuakehn.com

On Tuesday, April 26, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Mel Brands wrote:
Hi all,
> 
> I've come across another serious TM bug :(
> 
> It appears that TM modifies the contents of the pasteboard without the
> user doing the ?+c. If you copy a piece of rich text (or text with
> image data) and you just switch to TM so its window is frontmost and
> active, TM will go ahead and just strip all rich edit out of text and
> leave you with just plain text representation. You can verify this if
> you use any of the pasteboard history viewers. Or say you copy a large
> number of cells out of Numbers and you inadvertently ?-tab to TM, TM
> will freeze while it's messing up your pasteboard data.
> 
> Anyway, modifying system-wide pasteboard without any user input is
> really bad form. Will this ever be fixed or is MacVim the only
> solution for now?
> 
> Mel
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
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From layotl at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 19:58:32 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:58:32 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: <4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>

Joshua Kehn wrote:
> Never really was one for copying rich text. Causes more hassles then
> it's worth in my opinion.

I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described.

(1) Open a TextEdit document.
(2) Add a few lines of text and then style some of them: make one 
italic, one bold, one a different font, one centered.
(3) Copy these lines with Cmd-C or the edit menu.
(4) Paste them onto the end of the document just to verify that you get 
back what you copied, with all the styles.
(5) Switch to an open TextMate window. Don't do ANYTHING. Just switch to it.
(6) Switch back to TextEdit and hit Cmd-V for paste again.
(7) The pasted text will have lost all of its styling.

Maybe you have a workflow in which you never, ever, ever copy styled 
text to the Clipboard and expect it to retain its styles. I don't 
usually work with styled text, either, but I can't guarantee I never 
will -- and Mel is absolutely right. TextMate has absolutely no business 
mucking about with the clipboard when no command that should touch the 
clipboard is invoked. This may be a bug that few people encounter, but 
it's a potentially serious one for people who use the clipboard a lot. 
(And it's one I've just opened a ticket on.)

-- 
Watts Martin 

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From josh.kehn at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 20:01:13 2011
From: josh.kehn at gmail.com (Joshua Kehn)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:01:13 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0CB0273B3D104656AD1C76E5F0635CCA@gmail.com>

I understand the problem, I'm saying I don't find copying already formatted text a priority.

The fact that it does muck with the clipboard would be an annoyance if you routinely tab through TextMate on your way to pasting RTF copy into another application. 

Regards,

-Josh___________________________________________
Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn at gmail.com
http://joshuakehn.com

On Tuesday, April 26, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Watts Martin wrote:

> Joshua Kehn wrote:
> > Never really was one for copying rich text. Causes more hassles then
> > it's worth in my opinion.
> 
> I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described.
> 
> (1) Open a TextEdit document.
> (2) Add a few lines of text and then style some of them: make one 
> italic, one bold, one a different font, one centered.
> (3) Copy these lines with Cmd-C or the edit menu.
> (4) Paste them onto the end of the document just to verify that you get 
> back what you copied, with all the styles.
> (5) Switch to an open TextMate window. Don't do ANYTHING. Just switch to it.
> (6) Switch back to TextEdit and hit Cmd-V for paste again.
> (7) The pasted text will have lost all of its styling.
> 
> Maybe you have a workflow in which you never, ever, ever copy styled 
> text to the Clipboard and expect it to retain its styles. I don't 
> usually work with styled text, either, but I can't guarantee I never 
> will -- and Mel is absolutely right. TextMate has absolutely no business 
> mucking about with the clipboard when no command that should touch the 
> clipboard is invoked. This may be a bug that few people encounter, but 
> it's a potentially serious one for people who use the clipboard a lot. 
> (And it's one I've just opened a ticket on.)
> 
> -- 
> Watts Martin 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
> Attachments: 
> - smime.p7s
> 
> 

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From mrcodewizard at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 20:17:43 2011
From: mrcodewizard at gmail.com (Mark Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:17:43 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9EA5700A-7CBC-45C6-B1CE-A474C4135A48@gmail.com>

On Apr 26, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Watts Martin wrote:

> I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described

If that's true then you should direct your tirade at BIGHYPE for failing to provide basic info to explain/test the alleged bug. Even with your steps to replicate, which may not be what s/he/it did, it still may not be TM's fault. 

I am tired of the people who automatically assume it's this or that program because of a thin thread of connection. Correlation is not causation. Then come on the list and start thumping their chest about the SERIOUS bug THEY found.

I am sure I am not the only one here who feels that some people, BIGHYPE *hint* and others, need to tone their attitude down. Being an ass, doesn't help anyone.

From bhh at xs4all.nl  Tue Apr 26 20:21:36 2011
From: bhh at xs4all.nl (Berend Hasselman)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:21:36 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>

On 26-04-2011, at 21:58, Watts Martin wrote:

> 
> Joshua Kehn wrote:
>> Never really was one for copying rich text. Causes more hassles then
>> it's worth in my opinion.
> 
> I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described.
> 
> (1) Open a TextEdit document.
> (2) Add a few lines of text and then style some of them: make one italic, one bold, one a different font, one centered.
> (3) Copy these lines with Cmd-C or the edit menu.
> (4) Paste them onto the end of the document just to verify that you get back what you copied, with all the styles.
> (5) Switch to an open TextMate window. Don't do ANYTHING. Just switch to it.
> (6) Switch back to TextEdit and hit Cmd-V for paste again.
> (7) The pasted text will have lost all of its styling.

Doesn't happen for me.
Step 7 gives styled text.

Berend

From mbauman at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 21:38:43 2011
From: mbauman at gmail.com (Matt Bauman)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:38:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TxMt] Re:
	=?utf-8?q?TM_modifies/destroys_the_contents_of_the_system-wid?=
	=?utf-8?q?e=09pasteboard?=
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
	<9EA5700A-7CBC-45C6-B1CE-A474C4135A48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Mark Jackson  writes:
> I am tired of the people who automatically assume it's this or that program
> because of a thin thread of connection. Correlation is not causation. Then
> come on the list and start thumping their chest about the SERIOUS bug THEY
> found.

Good grief. When did this list become so hostile and unhelpful? Yes, Mel's
final sentence was somewhat flamebait-ish, but she describes a real bug which
was originally reported three years ago:
http://ticket.macromates.com/show?ticket_id=28925743

Mel Brands  writes: 
> Will this ever be fixed...?

Your answer, Mel, is in that original ticket.

Note added by Allan Odgaard on 2007-11-21 17:46:49 
> The reason for this is the way TM?s clipboard history works. There won?t be
> any fix for this in 1.x, but I am going to use another approach in 2.x, so
> this will be moot.

Ad hominem tirades and attacks are what don't help anyone.

From bmf at email.arizona.edu  Tue Apr 26 21:42:49 2011
From: bmf at email.arizona.edu (Brandon M Fryslie)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:42:49 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
Message-ID: 

>
> I am sure I am not the only one here who feels that some people, BIGHYPE
> *hint* and others, need to tone their attitude down. Being an ass, doesn't
> help anyone.

@Joshua Kehn & @Watts Martin: Let's please keep this list related to helping
people with TextMate, not useless ad hominem attacks.  If someone reports a
bug, you don't need to say anything unless you can confirm it or say it
isn't currently affecting you.  "This bug doesn't bother me much, so keep
quiet" is not an acceptable answer, and if you post some advice please be
ready to follow it yourself.

That being said, I can confirm that I am not experiencing the clipboard bug.
 I can copy rich text from TextEdit and paste it into TextMate, then paste
the still-rich text anywhere else I like.  Therefore I'd say that TextMate
is NOT screwing up the clipboard so it must be something else.

Cheers!
Brandon

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 1:17 PM, wrote:

> Send textmate mailing list submissions to
>        textmate at lists.macromates.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        textmate-request at lists.macromates.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        textmate-owner at lists.macromates.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of textmate digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1.  TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
>      pasteboard (Mel Brands)
>   2.  Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
>      pasteboard (Joshua Kehn)
>   3.  Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
>      pasteboard (Watts Martin)
>   4.  Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
>      pasteboard (Joshua Kehn)
>   5.  Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
>      pasteboard (Mark Jackson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:45:49 -0400
> From: Mel Brands 
> To: TextMate users 
> Subject: [TxMt] TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
>        pasteboard
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've come across another serious TM bug :(
>
> It appears that TM modifies the contents of the pasteboard without the
> user doing the ?+c. If you copy a piece of rich text (or text with
> image data) and you just switch to TM so its window is frontmost and
> active, TM will go ahead and just strip all rich edit out of text and
> leave you with just plain text representation. You can verify this if
> you use any of the pasteboard history viewers. Or say you copy a large
> number of cells out of Numbers and you inadvertently ?-tab to TM, TM
> will freeze while it's messing up your pasteboard data.
>
> Anyway, modifying system-wide pasteboard without any user input is
> really bad form. Will this ever be fixed or is MacVim the only
> solution for now?
>
> Mel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:47:35 -0400
> From: Joshua Kehn 
> To: TextMate users 
> Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the
>        system-wide pasteboard
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Never really was one for copying rich text. Causes more hassles then it's
> worth in my opinion.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Josh___________________________________________
> Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn at gmail.com
> http://joshuakehn.com
>
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Mel Brands wrote:
> Hi all,
> >
> > I've come across another serious TM bug :(
> >
> > It appears that TM modifies the contents of the pasteboard without the
> > user doing the ?+c. If you copy a piece of rich text (or text with
> > image data) and you just switch to TM so its window is frontmost and
> > active, TM will go ahead and just strip all rich edit out of text and
> > leave you with just plain text representation. You can verify this if
> > you use any of the pasteboard history viewers. Or say you copy a large
> > number of cells out of Numbers and you inadvertently ?-tab to TM, TM
> > will freeze while it's messing up your pasteboard data.
> >
> > Anyway, modifying system-wide pasteboard without any user input is
> > really bad form. Will this ever be fixed or is MacVim the only
> > solution for now?
> >
> > Mel
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > textmate mailing list
> > textmate at lists.macromates.com
> > http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> >
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:58:32 -0700
> From: Watts Martin 
> To: TextMate users 
> Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the
>        system-wide pasteboard
> Message-ID: <4DB723E8.8080304 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
>
> Joshua Kehn wrote:
> > Never really was one for copying rich text. Causes more hassles then
> > it's worth in my opinion.
>
> I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described.
>
> (1) Open a TextEdit document.
> (2) Add a few lines of text and then style some of them: make one
> italic, one bold, one a different font, one centered.
> (3) Copy these lines with Cmd-C or the edit menu.
> (4) Paste them onto the end of the document just to verify that you get
> back what you copied, with all the styles.
> (5) Switch to an open TextMate window. Don't do ANYTHING. Just switch to
> it.
> (6) Switch back to TextEdit and hit Cmd-V for paste again.
> (7) The pasted text will have lost all of its styling.
>
> Maybe you have a workflow in which you never, ever, ever copy styled
> text to the Clipboard and expect it to retain its styles. I don't
> usually work with styled text, either, but I can't guarantee I never
> will -- and Mel is absolutely right. TextMate has absolutely no business
> mucking about with the clipboard when no command that should touch the
> clipboard is invoked. This may be a bug that few people encounter, but
> it's a potentially serious one for people who use the clipboard a lot.
> (And it's one I've just opened a ticket on.)
>
> --
> Watts Martin 
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:01:13 -0400
> From: Joshua Kehn 
> To: TextMate users 
> Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the
>        system-wide pasteboard
> Message-ID: <0CB0273B3D104656AD1C76E5F0635CCA at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I understand the problem, I'm saying I don't find copying already formatted
> text a priority.
>
> The fact that it does muck with the clipboard would be an annoyance if you
> routinely tab through TextMate on your way to pasting RTF copy into another
> application.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Josh___________________________________________
> Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn at gmail.com
> http://joshuakehn.com
>
> On Tuesday, April 26, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
>
> > Joshua Kehn wrote:
> > > Never really was one for copying rich text. Causes more hassles then
> > > it's worth in my opinion.
> >
> > I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described.
> >
> > (1) Open a TextEdit document.
> > (2) Add a few lines of text and then style some of them: make one
> > italic, one bold, one a different font, one centered.
> > (3) Copy these lines with Cmd-C or the edit menu.
> > (4) Paste them onto the end of the document just to verify that you get
> > back what you copied, with all the styles.
> > (5) Switch to an open TextMate window. Don't do ANYTHING. Just switch to
> it.
> > (6) Switch back to TextEdit and hit Cmd-V for paste again.
> > (7) The pasted text will have lost all of its styling.
> >
> > Maybe you have a workflow in which you never, ever, ever copy styled
> > text to the Clipboard and expect it to retain its styles. I don't
> > usually work with styled text, either, but I can't guarantee I never
> > will -- and Mel is absolutely right. TextMate has absolutely no business
> > mucking about with the clipboard when no command that should touch the
> > clipboard is invoked. This may be a bug that few people encounter, but
> > it's a potentially serious one for people who use the clipboard a lot.
> > (And it's one I've just opened a ticket on.)
> >
> > --
> > Watts Martin 
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > textmate mailing list
> > textmate at lists.macromates.com
> > http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> >
> > Attachments:
> > - smime.p7s
> >
> >
>
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:17:43 -0700
> From: Mark Jackson 
> To: TextMate users 
> Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the
>        system-wide     pasteboard
> Message-ID: <9EA5700A-7CBC-45C6-B1CE-A474C4135A48 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On Apr 26, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described
>
> If that's true then you should direct your tirade at BIGHYPE for failing to
> provide basic info to explain/test the alleged bug. Even with your steps to
> replicate, which may not be what s/he/it did, it still may not be TM's
> fault.
>
> I am tired of the people who automatically assume it's this or that program
> because of a thin thread of connection. Correlation is not causation. Then
> come on the list and start thumping their chest about the SERIOUS bug THEY
> found.
>
> I am sure I am not the only one here who feels that some people, BIGHYPE
> *hint* and others, need to tone their attitude down. Being an ass, doesn't
> help anyone.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>
> End of textmate Digest, Vol 35, Issue 31
> ****************************************
>
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From layotl at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 21:55:49 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:55:49 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4DB73F65.10804@gmail.com>

Brandon M Fryslie wrote:

>     I am sure I am not the only one here who feels that some people,
>     BIGHYPE *hint* and others, need to tone their attitude down. Being
>     an ass, doesn't help anyone.
>
> @Joshua Kehn & @Watts Martin...

Uh? Neither Joshua Kehn nor I wrote the section you quoted above, Mark 
Jackson did. I know I certainly don't take Joshua's disapproval of 
styled text as a personal attack, and I hope he doesn't take my feeling 
that styled text is actually important as an attack on him.

-- 
Watts Martin 

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From josh.kehn at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 21:58:40 2011
From: josh.kehn at gmail.com (Joshua Kehn)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:58:40 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <4DB73F65.10804@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4DB73F65.10804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17CF0F22337C4B65B24D93DBFB7EF380@gmail.com>

I never stated that. Ever.

For the official record I can duplicate the bug. I just don't make it a habit of tabbing into my plain text editor before pasting rich text into another application. 

Regards,

-Josh___________________________________________
Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn at gmail.com
http://joshuakehn.com

On Tuesday, April 26, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
Brandon M Fryslie wrote:
> 
> >  I am sure I am not the only one here who feels that some people,
> >  BIGHYPE *hint* and others, need to tone their attitude down. Being
> >  an ass, doesn't help anyone.
> > 
> > @Joshua Kehn & @Watts Martin...
> 
> Uh? Neither Joshua Kehn nor I wrote the section you quoted above, Mark 
> Jackson did. I know I certainly don't take Joshua's disapproval of 
> styled text as a personal attack, and I hope he doesn't take my feeling 
> that styled text is actually important as an attack on him.
> 
> -- 
> Watts Martin 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
> Attachments: 
> - smime.p7s
> 
> 

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From josh.kehn at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 21:59:13 2011
From: josh.kehn at gmail.com (Joshua Kehn)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:59:13 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <4DB73F65.10804@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4DB73F65.10804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Watts-

No, I do not. 

Regards,

-Josh___________________________________________
Joshua Kehn | Josh.Kehn at gmail.com
http://joshuakehn.com

On Tuesday, April 26, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
Brandon M Fryslie wrote:
> 
> >  I am sure I am not the only one here who feels that some people,
> >  BIGHYPE *hint* and others, need to tone their attitude down. Being
> >  an ass, doesn't help anyone.
> > 
> > @Joshua Kehn & @Watts Martin...
> 
> Uh? Neither Joshua Kehn nor I wrote the section you quoted above, Mark 
> Jackson did. I know I certainly don't take Joshua's disapproval of 
> styled text as a personal attack, and I hope he doesn't take my feeling 
> that styled text is actually important as an attack on him.
> 
> -- 
> Watts Martin 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
> Attachments: 
> - smime.p7s
> 
> 

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From apricotan at gmail.com  Tue Apr 26 23:15:47 2011
From: apricotan at gmail.com (Apricot AN)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:15:47 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
Message-ID: 

I've been with TM since the beginning (I wrote the first Perl and LaTeX
bundles). I think a lot of the frustration with TM2 comes out of our
affection for TM1 and wanting *Textmate* to be the platform that keeps
evolving and takes us all into the next decade.

Let me gently suggest that pleading with Allan about communication or
productivity won't have much constructive effect. When you are blocked on a
difficult project, does having people nag you make you more productive?

The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are
really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives.  If TM2
comes out, that will be the nicest present.   So what alternatives are
there?

The most hopeful alternative I've seen is Kod .
Naturally, Kod is having a little developmental stall, but it's open-source
and could be worked on by interested developers.

BBEdit and UltraEdit are closed source without channels for community
contributions, but they are under active development.

Smultron seems interesting, but I don't know much about it.

Alpha X and Pepper seem dead.

So... anyone up for some Kod programming?  Otherwise, we may have to settle
for TM1 for now...

best wishes, Eric

--

Eric Hsu, Associate Professor of Mathematics

Director, Center for Science and Math Education

San Francisco State University

http://math.sfsu.edu/hsu
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From bmf at email.arizona.edu  Tue Apr 26 23:26:08 2011
From: bmf at email.arizona.edu (Brandon M Fryslie)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:26:08 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
Message-ID: 

>
> Uh? Neither Joshua Kehn nor I wrote the section you quoted above, Mark
> Jackson did. I know I certainly don't take Joshua's disapproval of
> styled text as a personal attack, and I hope he doesn't take my feeling
> that styled text is actually important as an attack on him.

 I never stated that. Ever.
> For the official record I can duplicate the bug. I just don't make it a
> habit of tabbing into my plain text editor before pasting rich text into
> another application.

I really, really apologize to you guys for misquoting you.  I must have
grabbed the name from the messages above or below.  I think I'll just stick
to technical answers from now on.  :)

Regarding the bug, I am running TM 1.5.10 1623 on OS X 10.6.6 (MB Alum) and
can completely confirm that the bug doesn't exist as it has been described*,
at least on my system.  Possibly you are running a different build?

* I can copy rich text and interact with TM all I want and the pasteboard
retains 100% of the richness (styling).

Brandon
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From gerti-textmate at bitart.com  Tue Apr 26 23:53:36 2011
From: gerti-textmate at bitart.com (Gerd Knops)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 18:53:36 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <9CEC8AD7-458F-4D65-B026-8FC756DB8398@bitart.com>

On Apr 26, 2011, at 6:15 PM, Apricot AN wrote:

> 
> The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives.  If TM2 comes out, that will be the nicest present.

One problem is that without a clear direction folks are unwilling to sink a lot of time into enhancing TextMate's bundles and plugins (I know I am, though I did break down and improved git support in projectplus somewhat).

TextMate has no competition as far as I am concerned, but it could be so much better!

>   So what alternatives are there?
> 
> The most hopeful alternative I've seen is Kod . Naturally, Kod is having a little developmental stall, but it's open-source and could be worked on by interested developers. 
> 
I had a look a while back, and as is I don't think it has the bones to come close to TextMate, never mind surpass it. Hope they prove me wrong!

For Objective-C AppCode [1] is a nice effort, but if I could convince myself to live with a Java-based editor I'd probably go back to jEdit [2] which I used before TextMate. And Xcode4 just has me wonder what planet it's developers live on.

One of the reasons I am disappointed with Allan's lack of communication is this: part of what made TextMate a success (and quite lucrative for Allan) were (and are) all the (free) community contributions (a big thank you to all!). I have no problem with that, I got a great tool out of it. But to leave all the people that spent many hours of their time enhancing and improving TextMate hanging like this, that is disappointing.

Gerd

[1]: http://www.jetbrains.com/objc/
[2]: http://www.jedit.org/

> BBEdit and UltraEdit are closed source without channels for community contributions, but they are under active development. 
> 
> Smultron seems interesting, but I don't know much about it. 
> 
> Alpha X and Pepper seem dead. 
> 
> So... anyone up for some Kod programming?  Otherwise, we may have to settle for TM1 for now...
> 
> 
> best wishes, Eric
> 
> --
> Eric Hsu, Associate Professor of Mathematics
> Director, Center for Science and Math Education
> San Francisco State University
> http://math.sfsu.edu/hsu
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From layotl at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 00:00:24 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:00:24 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4DB75C98.4040900@gmail.com>

Brandon M Fryslie wrote:

> Regarding the bug, I am running TM 1.5.10 1623 on OS X 10.6.6 (MB Alum)
> and can completely confirm that the bug doesn't exist as it has been
> described*, at least on my system.  Possibly you are running a different
> build?

I'm using build 1631. The November 2007 bug report that Matt Bauman 
found sounds like it's the same thing, but evidently there are only 
certain circumstances it comes out in, given that you're not the only 
person who can't duplicate it. (I suppose it's possible that it was 
fixed in 1623 and regressed in 1631, but there's probably something more 
peculiar going on.)

(No problem about the misquoting. It happens!)

-- 
Watts Martin 

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From layotl at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 00:29:04 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:29:04 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>

Apricot AN wrote:

> The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are
> really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives.  If TM2
> comes out, that will be the nicest present.   So what alternatives are
> there?

You mentioned BBEdit. While TM positioned itself as the anti-BBEdit very 
early on, it's worth noting that BBEdit hasn't been standing still, and 
it's actually pretty extensible -- it's just that to do most of the neat 
stuff with it you need AppleScript. BBEdit can handle huge files with 
ease, though, and does a better job when it comes to handling 20+ files 
open at once than anything else I've seen.

The problem with most of the other alternatives out there is that 
they're just Not There Yet, if you get the meaning. The 
previously-mentioned Kod has some really interesting design ideas but 
it's a long way from being usable. It's unique for being very modern and 
open source, though. Others I'd really keep my eyes on --

Sublime Text 2: currently in alpha, but based on an existing Windows 
program that already has a bit of a community around it. Openly inspired 
by TextMate, and compatible with TM color schemes and some bundle 
components (snippets, .tmPreferences and .tmLanguages files).

Coda: Panic's "one-window" web development system also has a plugin 
system and some TextMate compatibility, which I'm not sure people know 
about. Panic has said that they're working full steam on version 2.0, so 
even if version 1.x isn't your cup of tea (it's not mine), big changes 
are ahead.

Espresso: MacRabbit's competitor to Coda is kind of wonky right now, but 
it's very extensible in a fashion that's similar (albeit more 
convoluted) than TM's bundles. I suspect it has a lot of power under the 
hood that isn't being exploited yet. Also like Coda, it's a program I 
haven't warmed to but am expecting possibly big things in its version 2 
release.

...and, of course, I'm expecting possibly big things in TextMate's 
version 2 release. Lest anyone get *too* much on my case for 
recommending competitors: despite a few serious attempts to move to 
BBEdit or MacVim, I keep coming back to TM. It just seems prudent to 
hedge my bets at this point. :)

-- 
Watts Martin 

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From newsgr at tobiasjung.net  Wed Apr 27 09:18:19 2011
From: newsgr at tobiasjung.net (Tobias Jung)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 11:18:19 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
	<7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <20110427091819.526823714@tobiasjung.net>

Berend Hasselman wrote (Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:21:36 +0200):

> On 26-04-2011, at 21:58, Watts Martin wrote:
> (...)
>> I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described.
>> 
>> (1) Open a TextEdit document.
>> (2) Add a few lines of text and then style some of them: make one
>> italic, one bold, one a different font, one centered.
>> (3) Copy these lines with Cmd-C or the edit menu.
>> (4) Paste them onto the end of the document just to verify that you
>> get back what you copied, with all the styles.
>> (5) Switch to an open TextMate window. Don't do ANYTHING. Just switch
to it.
>> (6) Switch back to TextEdit and hit Cmd-V for paste again.
>> (7) The pasted text will have lost all of its styling.
> 
> 
> Doesn't happen for me.
> Step 7 gives styled text.

But it happens for me, too -- TextMate 1.5.10 (1623), Mac OS X 10.6.6.
Admittedly, if I would've found that bug, I probably would have thought
that it isn't TextMate's fault but rather that PTH Pasteboard (a
clipboard history manager that I use) is screwing something up.
But it only happens when switching to TextMate (not on other
applications) so I guess TextMate IS involved.

This bug doesn't bother me a lot, since I use PTH Pasteboard I always
can go back to the previous clipboard entry (the styled one) -- after
all, that's what a clipboard history manager is for. ;-)
But I agree that this is bad behaviour.

Kind regards,
Tobias Jung

From lanceboyle at qwest.net  Wed Apr 27 09:30:04 2011
From: lanceboyle at qwest.net (Jerry)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 02:30:04 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <40211406-C5DC-469E-A95C-4589CC2B38FF@qwest.net>

Kod can't even display its own About box, let alone open a text file and display its contents.
Jerry

From gaby at vanhegan.net  Wed Apr 27 10:59:55 2011
From: gaby at vanhegan.net (Gaby Vanhegan)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 11:59:55 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
	<7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <7C36BB90-99FE-4DF9-ABAF-BAE4486AB405@vanhegan.net>

On 26 Apr 2011, at 21:21, Berend Hasselman wrote:

>> I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described.
>> 
>> (1) Open a TextEdit document.
>> (2) Add a few lines of text and then style some of them: make one italic, one bold, one a different font, one centered.
>> (3) Copy these lines with Cmd-C or the edit menu.
>> (4) Paste them onto the end of the document just to verify that you get back what you copied, with all the styles.
>> (5) Switch to an open TextMate window. Don't do ANYTHING. Just switch to it.
>> (6) Switch back to TextEdit and hit Cmd-V for paste again.
>> (7) The pasted text will have lost all of its styling.
> 
> Doesn't happen for me.
> Step 7 gives styled text.

When I tried this I used the following text:

> This is some plain text.
> This is some bold text.
> This is italic text.
> This is underlined.

Appropriately styled as per each line.  When I pasted the text back in to TextEdit (step 7) all four lines were underlined and the other stylings had been lost.  This happened if there was a document open in TextMate or not.  If I change the order of the lines, it still comes back all underlined.

I am using OSX 10.6.7 and TextMate 1.5.10 (1623)

G.

--
I'm on a horse!
http://playr.co.uk/

From macagp at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 11:20:06 2011
From: macagp at gmail.com (Merrifield Adam)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:20:06 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back and read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the alternative suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do) and the obvious point keeps being missed? Why are you looking for an alternative to something that does what you want in the first place?

Yes, yes, news of TM2 would all make us feel like we're not using abandonware (though maintenance releases do that too) but the reality is for as long as TM1 works on whatever OS Apple throws at us then I am happy to continue using TM1. 

I've been using TextMate for what? 5 years give or take? I got my money's worth, Allan owes me nothing. And if TM1 stopped working tomorrow I'd feel hard pressed to knock on Allan's door and demand he do something about it. I'd move on. It would suck to do so but Allan is not some corporation that will live on with or without him (yes technically MacroMates is but I suspect his pride would stop him from letting that go); if Allan is gone, so too is TextMate, so be it.

I am excited to see what TM2 has to offer but until then TM1 has no challengers to temp me to leave. My customer satisfaction hinges on this version working, the version I paid for, not whether it's developer keeps me updated on what they're doing on the next version.

And let's face it, if Duke Nukem Forever can finally post a release date (June 24) then there is hope yet for TextMate 2.

Adam Merrifield

On Apr 26, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Watts Martin wrote:

> Apricot AN wrote:
> 
>> The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are
>> really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives.  If TM2
>> comes out, that will be the nicest present.   So what alternatives are
>> there?
> 
> You mentioned BBEdit. While TM positioned itself as the anti-BBEdit very early on, it's worth noting that BBEdit hasn't been standing still, and it's actually pretty extensible -- it's just that to do most of the neat stuff with it you need AppleScript. BBEdit can handle huge files with ease, though, and does a better job when it comes to handling 20+ files open at once than anything else I've seen.
> 
> The problem with most of the other alternatives out there is that they're just Not There Yet, if you get the meaning. The previously-mentioned Kod has some really interesting design ideas but it's a long way from being usable. It's unique for being very modern and open source, though. Others I'd really keep my eyes on --
> 
> Sublime Text 2: currently in alpha, but based on an existing Windows program that already has a bit of a community around it. Openly inspired by TextMate, and compatible with TM color schemes and some bundle components (snippets, .tmPreferences and .tmLanguages files).
> 
> Coda: Panic's "one-window" web development system also has a plugin system and some TextMate compatibility, which I'm not sure people know about. Panic has said that they're working full steam on version 2.0, so even if version 1.x isn't your cup of tea (it's not mine), big changes are ahead.
> 
> Espresso: MacRabbit's competitor to Coda is kind of wonky right now, but it's very extensible in a fashion that's similar (albeit more convoluted) than TM's bundles. I suspect it has a lot of power under the hood that isn't being exploited yet. Also like Coda, it's a program I haven't warmed to but am expecting possibly big things in its version 2 release.
> 
> ...and, of course, I'm expecting possibly big things in TextMate's version 2 release. Lest anyone get *too* much on my case for recommending competitors: despite a few serious attempts to move to BBEdit or MacVim, I keep coming back to TM. It just seems prudent to hedge my bets at this point. :)
> 
> -- 
> Watts Martin 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From tiagofrederico.dias at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 11:22:32 2011
From: tiagofrederico.dias at gmail.com (Tiago Dias)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:22:32 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

On 27 April 2011 00:15, Apricot AN  wrote:
>
> The reality is that TM2 isn't ready and may never be, and people who are
> really dissatisfied with TM need to be looking at alternatives.  If TM2
> comes out, that will be the nicest present.   So what alternatives are
> there?
>

I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work
many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editor
http://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that
this is a good alternative to TM.

-- 

Tiago Dias

tiagofrederico.dias at gmail.com
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From sking at arbor.net  Wed Apr 27 13:58:42 2011
From: sking at arbor.net (Steve King)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:58:42 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
 pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <7C36BB90-99FE-4DF9-ABAF-BAE4486AB405@vanhegan.net>
References: 		<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>	<7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>
	<7C36BB90-99FE-4DF9-ABAF-BAE4486AB405@vanhegan.net>
Message-ID: <4DB82112.6090501@arbor.net>

On 2011-04-27 06:59, Gaby Vanhegan wrote:
> Appropriately styled as per each line. When I pasted the text back in 
> to TextEdit (step 7) all four lines were underlined and the other 
> stylings had been lost. This happened if there was a document open in 
> TextMate or not. If I change the order of the lines, it still comes 
> back all underlined.
> I am using OSX 10.6.7 and TextMate 1.5.10 (1623)

Ditto here. Same OS rev, slightly newer version of TextMate: 1.5.10 (1631)

I think the fact that everything is underlined when you paste it back 
into TextEdit is a red herring.  That's what I got the first time, too, 
but I tried again after explicitly setting the style back to "Default".  
Just plain text, no underlining.  I'm pretty sure the underlining is 
just due to that being the current style at your cursor position when 
you did the paste.

I've never noticed this before in years of using TextMate. Actually, if 
I'd known I might have considered it a feature.  I often copy some 
styled text, paste it into TextMate to remove the styling, then copy and 
paste it from TM into something else.  I could have saved a copy/paste 
step! :-)  (But I agree with the original assessment, it's bad form to 
mess with the pasteboard contents.)

-- 
Steve King
Sr. Software Engineer
Arbor Networks
+1 734 821 1461
www.arbornetworks.com 

From bighype at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 15:04:49 2011
From: bighype at gmail.com (Mel Brands)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 11:04:49 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <9EA5700A-7CBC-45C6-B1CE-A474C4135A48@gmail.com>
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
	<9EA5700A-7CBC-45C6-B1CE-A474C4135A48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

Here's the proof:

http://i.imgur.com/LS9AK.png

1) Copy test/images out of Safari.

2) Paste them immediately into TextEdit.

3) Switch to TM (don't do copy/paste... just switch to it so it's
frontmost and active).

4) Go back to TextEdit, do ?+n and ?+v

5) Your formatting is now gone.

I don't have any services that record pasteboard running, I've quit
LaunchBar, I'm running the latest 10.6.7 OS with all updates as of
today applied.

Problem is reproducible 100% to me.

Mel

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Mark Jackson  wrote:
>
> On Apr 26, 2011, at 12:58 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure you're understanding the problem that Mel described
>
> If that's true then you should direct your tirade at BIGHYPE for failing to provide basic info to explain/test the alleged bug. Even with your steps to replicate, which may not be what s/he/it did, it still may not be TM's fault.
>
> I am tired of the people who automatically assume it's this or that program because of a thin thread of connection. Correlation is not causation. Then come on the list and start thumping their chest about the SERIOUS bug THEY found.
>
> I am sure I am not the only one here who feels that some people, BIGHYPE *hint* and others, need to tone their attitude down. Being an ass, doesn't help anyone.
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

From 100621.1 at masonsmusic.co.uk  Wed Apr 27 15:23:46 2011
From: 100621.1 at masonsmusic.co.uk (Justin Catterall)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:23:46 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

On 27 Apr 2011, at 12:20, Merrifield Adam wrote:

> You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back  
> and read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the  
> alternative suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and  
> they do) and the obvious point keeps being missed? Why are you  
> looking for an alternative to something that does what you want in  
> the first place?
>
> Yes, yes, news of TM2 would all make us feel like we're not using  
> abandonware (though maintenance releases do that too) but the  
> reality is for as long as TM1 works on whatever OS Apple throws at  
> us then I am happy to continue using TM1.

My feelings too, well said.

-- 
Justin C, by the sea.

From lorinh at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 15:25:44 2011
From: lorinh at gmail.com (Lorin Hochstein)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 08:25:44 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <4DB82112.6090501@arbor.net>
References: 		<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>	<7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>
	<7C36BB90-99FE-4DF9-ABAF-BAE4486AB405@vanhegan.net>
	<4DB82112.6090501@arbor.net>
Message-ID: <00AF4EB3-C902-43D3-A01C-52EC65E43124@gmail.com>

Totally off-topic, but there's a little app called Plain Clip that can do this for you: http://www.bluem.net/en/mac/plain-clip/

Lorin

On Apr 27, 2011, at 6:58 AM, Steve King wrote:

> 
> I've never noticed this before in years of using TextMate. Actually, if I'd known I might have considered it a feature.  I often copy some styled text, paste it into TextMate to remove the styling, then copy and paste it from TM into something else.  I could have saved a copy/paste step! :-)  (But I agree with the original assessment, it's bad form to mess with the pasteboard contents.)
> 
> -- 
> Steve King
> Sr. Software Engineer
> Arbor Networks
> +1 734 821 1461
> www.arbornetworks.com 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

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From layotl at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 16:39:36 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 09:39:36 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>	

Message-ID: <4DB846C8.1050901@gmail.com>

Justin Catterall wrote:
 > You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back and
 > read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the alternative
 > suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do) and the
 > obvious point keeps being missed? Why are you looking for an 
alternative to
 > something that does what you want in the first place?

Because TextMate doesn't do everything that I want. I'll spare everyone 
from the bullet point list, but there are things (IMO) that other 
editors do better. There are also things that TM does better. The 
question is where the tipping point is, and that's a personal choice.

Someone else here put this better than I'm about to rephrase it, but 
most people on this list don't *want* to switch away from TextMate. What 
we want is for TextMate to keep evolving with us. Editors like Vim and 
Emacs and BBEdit have stayed in widespread use because they *do* evolve.

But if TextMate stays in one place and other editors don't, then for 
more and more people the tipping point is going to go in the other 
direction. And frankly, ongoing support for a text editor matters in a 
way that ongoing support for Duke Nukem doesn't.

No, TextMate users aren't entitled to anything other than the program we 
paid for. We get that (or at least most of us do). But "is this program 
still an ongoing concern" matters. Not because we imagine that TextMate 
1.x will suddenly stop working--goodness knows you can keep using 
programs long after they're theoretically obsolete--but because some of 
those editors that do things that TextMate doesn't do may, in future 
releases, also start doing what TextMate does that keeps us using it. 
And if by that point TextMate hasn't started doing what *they* do, then 
we have to evaluate whether the tipping point has moved.

I understand there's an argument to be made for not talking about the 
competition on the TextMate list, and if that raises people's hackles, 
I'm sorry. But look at it this way: if we understand what it is that 
*is* attractive about some of the other players, then maybe TextMate 
will, through future releases or bundles, move in those directions.

-- 
Watts Martin 

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From LSFinn at PSU.Edu  Wed Apr 27 16:39:43 2011
From: LSFinn at PSU.Edu (Lee Samuel Finn)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:39:43 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

Hi, 

I've hesitated to jump in to what should be a non-discussion; however, I think the meta-issue here - which is one of civility - is of great importance. 

A question was asked: i.e., would Allan please provide an honest assessment of TM2's state? The question was asked of Allan, not of anyone else. It was asked in a respectful fashion. Though it was a question of Allan it was asked in a public forum; however, that was appropriate in this case as the answer to the question is of broad and general interest. In summary, I see nothing wrong with the question itself, or how it was asked, or where it was asked. 

Some of the responses have, on the other hand, been --- to my mind --- quite inappropriate. Those fall into a couple of categories: 
* Some have questioned the propriety of asking the question. Indeed, some have questioned the propriety of asking any question at all. 
* Some have questioned why anyone would care what the answer was. 
* Some have suggested that wanting more than what exists is (somehow) beyond the natural order of things. 
* Some have been just plane rude. 

There should be no question at all about the propriety of asking a civil question in a civil fashion. Gerd should not be called on the carpet for asking the question, nor should he be asked to explain or defend himself, or "justify" his need to ask the question. 

Similarly, Allan can choose to respond publicly, or privately, or via a proxy, or not at all. His choice. 

It seems to me that's enough: i.e., there is no need for anyone else to chime in unless they can provide something helpful or relevant. Anything more - in particular, responses that castigate Gerd or Allan - don't advance anyone's interest: not Gerd's, not Allan's, and certainly not the interest of TextMate or the TextMate community. 

So, I conclude with a plea: let's all try to make our contributions to this discussion, and all discussions we take part in - online or offline, remotely or in person - positive and constructive. 

Sam

On Apr 27, 2011, at 11:23 AM, Justin Catterall wrote:

> 
> On 27 Apr 2011, at 12:20, Merrifield Adam wrote:
> 
>> You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat back and read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the alternative suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do) and the obvious point keeps being missed? Why are you looking for an alternative to something that does what you want in the first place?
>> 
>> Yes, yes, news of TM2 would all make us feel like we're not using abandonware (though maintenance releases do that too) but the reality is for as long as TM1 works on whatever OS Apple throws at us then I am happy to continue using TM1.
> 
> 
> My feelings too, well said.
> 
> -- 
> Justin C, by the sea.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

--
Lee Samuel Finn
Professor, Dept Physics; 
  Dept Astronomy & Astrophysics
The Pennsylvania State University
104 Davey Laboratory
University Park, PA 16802

From sven.axelsson at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 17:22:39 2011
From: sven.axelsson at gmail.com (Sven Axelsson)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:22:39 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>

Message-ID: 

On 27 April 2011 18:39, Lee Samuel Finn  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've hesitated to jump in to what should be a non-discussion; however, I think the meta-issue here - which is one of civility - is of great importance.
>
> ... snip ...
>
> So, I conclude with a plea: let's all try to make our contributions to this discussion, and all discussions we take part in - online or offline, remotely or in person - positive and constructive.

Well, yeah. The only uncivility I've seen here is from those that
castigate anyone having the audacity to wonder what's happening with
TM2.

Sure, Allan has stated that it will be ready when it's ready. And I
don't deny him the rights to twiddle his thumbs and stare at his
navel, far from it. But it has been *a long time now* and at least
some kind of life sign would be appreciated, even if it is "it will
take three more years at least".

I really don't understand why some thinks *the question* can never be
asked. What do you think will happen? Allan will read it and decide
he'll never code on TextMate again? I'm sure he has thicker skin than
that.

-- 
Sven Axelsson
++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++
>++++<<<<<-]>++++.+.++++.>+++++.>+.<<-.>>+.>++++.<<.
+++.>-.<<++.>>----.<++.>>>++++++.<<<<.>>++++.<----.

From sven.axelsson at gmail.com  Wed Apr 27 17:26:12 2011
From: sven.axelsson at gmail.com (Sven Axelsson)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 19:26:12 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: TM modifies/destroys the contents of the system-wide
	pasteboard
In-Reply-To: <00AF4EB3-C902-43D3-A01C-52EC65E43124@gmail.com>
References: 

	<4DB723E8.8080304@gmail.com>
	<7704DFC2-496A-4C8B-BD0A-8BF2D912FBB1@xs4all.nl>
	<7C36BB90-99FE-4DF9-ABAF-BAE4486AB405@vanhegan.net>
	<4DB82112.6090501@arbor.net>
	<00AF4EB3-C902-43D3-A01C-52EC65E43124@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

On 27 April 2011 17:25, Lorin Hochstein  wrote:
> Totally off-topic, but there's a little app called Plain Clip that can do
> this for you:?http://www.bluem.net/en/mac/plain-clip/

Totally off-topic indeed. I don't think the intention in the OP was to
remove formatting, but rather the opposite.

-- 
Sven Axelsson
++++++++++[>++++++++++>+++++++++++>++++++++++>++++++
>++++<<<<<-]>++++.+.++++.>+++++.>+.<<-.>>+.>++++.<<.
+++.>-.<<++.>>----.<++.>>>++++++.<<<<.>>++++.<----.

From jsmarshall at me.com  Wed Apr 27 17:47:43 2011
From: jsmarshall at me.com (Jon Marshall)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 13:47:43 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

As Apple product users, we all love and pay for two things.  High quality and shiny new beautiful products.  Our choice in hardware shows we all appreciate quality and beauty and are willing to pay for it. We all love TM because it's so fun to use and the reason we want a new, slightly different and better version is the same reason we all can't wait to buy Lion. We all want TM2 and that's fine.  I imagine all the hardcore, 'use TM1 till the bitter end' types are old school UNIX hackers that could still break out vim or emacs and knock off a script if they had too, and that's just fine too (pretty cool actually).

Another point worth making is, this situation is really strange.  This can't be normal.  But it is entertaining, so who cares right?

There is an army of loyal TM users just waiting to shell out cash.  So we must ask, why would there be such a delay and no response, with so many loyal customer?  Companies and products and software disappear and stops being developed when customers stop supporting and that is the only reason.  That is the only logical reason.  Why doesn't the creator sell or license it somehow? There are so many ways to make money with a good idea or product and the kinds of people who invest in these things would be all over a product with this much support.  So who knows whats happening.

But after this long, who cares?  I went back to bbedit, for most uses and still use TM sometimes. Theme junkies can get their fix with this tool. It's great. http://daringfireball.net/2006/10/bbcolors_1-0 and also, try 'bbedit --maketags' from the command line for extremely cool built in ctags support.

Keep using TM or don't.

Peace to all
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From bmf at email.arizona.edu  Wed Apr 27 19:16:12 2011
From: bmf at email.arizona.edu (Brandon M Fryslie)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:16:12 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
Message-ID: 

> Why are you looking for an alternative to something that does what you
want in the first place?

I think the point is that there are some issues with TM1.  Like you said,
there really isn't any alternative, but that shouldn't stop us from having a
frank discussion about TextMate's (very few) shortcomings.  I'm pretty sure
everyone here absolutely adores TextMate, especially after seeing the spurt
of activity here in the past few days.

Since we are some of TextMate's largest fans, I think this is a somewhat
appropriate place to discuss the future of TextMate (if not TextMate proper,
then the bundle systems which can theoretically fill whatever gaps we need
given enough elbow grease).

Since there are only a few short messages from Allen himself over the past
year, we can only discuss alternatives and what we would like to see
updated/fixed, and wait for news.  Given another year, maybe a competitor
will be to an advanced enough stage that with some work it could become
usable.

One possible alternative could be E-TextEditor (http://www.e-texteditor.com/).
 The only problem is that it is Windows only...but I've used it and it seems
to have very good support for all TextMate bundles (it uses Cygwin).  That
could be a possibility lacking any further news on the future of the real
TextMate.

Cheers
Brandon
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From bmf at email.arizona.edu  Wed Apr 27 19:25:25 2011
From: bmf at email.arizona.edu (Brandon M Fryslie)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 12:25:25 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: textmate Digest, Vol 35, Issue 36
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

>
> Problem is reproducible 100% to me.

Thank you Mel, I can reproduce it now as well.  Interesting, it only seems
to remove some of the formatting.  Alignment and some other things don't
seem to be removed.

Brandon
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From lanceboyle at qwest.net  Wed Apr 27 22:35:14 2011
From: lanceboyle at qwest.net (Jerry)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:35:14 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: 

On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:

> I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
> 
I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.

Jerry

From john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com  Wed Apr 27 23:22:24 2011
From: john.vilsack at activesportsinc.com (John Vilsack)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:22:24 -0500
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: 

Everyone is failing to miss a major selling point here.

By NOT having Textmate 2 you essentially have a macguffin in your own
personal life to blame essentially all of your failures on.

Can't meet your deadline?  Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
Productivity Issues?   Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
Dog leave a puddle of sick in your living room?   Wouldn't have
happened if you had TM2.
Offended someone on a mailing list made you sad?   Wouldn't have
happened if you had TM2.

I think the developer is doing you all a favor!

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Jerry  wrote:
>
> On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
>
>> I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
>>
> I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

From macagp at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 01:49:45 2011
From: macagp at gmail.com (Adam Merrifield)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 21:49:45 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: 

Lol

Adam Merrifield

On 2011-04-27, at 19:22, John Vilsack  wrote:

> Everyone is failing to miss a major selling point here.
> 
> By NOT having Textmate 2 you essentially have a macguffin in your own
> personal life to blame essentially all of your failures on.
> 
> Can't meet your deadline?  Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
> Productivity Issues?   Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
> Dog leave a puddle of sick in your living room?   Wouldn't have
> happened if you had TM2.
> Offended someone on a mailing list made you sad?   Wouldn't have
> happened if you had TM2.
> 
> I think the developer is doing you all a favor!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Jerry  wrote:
>> 
>> On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
>> 
>>> I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
>>> 
>> I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
>> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From yuhanhao at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 01:59:51 2011
From: yuhanhao at gmail.com (Yuhan Hao)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 21:59:51 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: <58558B41-6C94-437A-9F71-6F0077E182A5@gmail.com>

TM2 has to be developed using TM2.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 27, 2011, at 9:49 PM, Adam Merrifield  wrote:

> Lol
> 
> Adam Merrifield
> 
> On 2011-04-27, at 19:22, John Vilsack  wrote:
> 
>> Everyone is failing to miss a major selling point here.
>> 
>> By NOT having Textmate 2 you essentially have a macguffin in your own
>> personal life to blame essentially all of your failures on.
>> 
>> Can't meet your deadline?  Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
>> Productivity Issues?   Wouldn't have happened if you had TM2.
>> Dog leave a puddle of sick in your living room?   Wouldn't have
>> happened if you had TM2.
>> Offended someone on a mailing list made you sad?   Wouldn't have
>> happened if you had TM2.
>> 
>> I think the developer is doing you all a favor!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Jerry  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think that this is a good alternative to TM.
>>>> 
>>> I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
>>> 
>>> Jerry
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> textmate mailing list
>>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> textmate mailing list
>> textmate at lists.macromates.com
>> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From bmf at email.arizona.edu  Thu Apr 28 03:35:07 2011
From: bmf at email.arizona.edu (Brandon M Fryslie)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:35:07 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: textmate Digest, Vol 35, Issue 37
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

>
> Dog leave a puddle of sick in your living room?   Wouldn't have
>
> happened if you had TM2.
>
> I think the developer is doing you all a favor!
>
> Yea, well, you didn't have to clean it up!  Allen, please take pity on my
beloved poodle Jericho and her IBS.  I think even a short update with maybe
a thumbs up / thumbs down about how it's going would quell her digestive
issues and get her appetite back.  She's been coding and utilizing TextMate
so much she can't get the thought of all those juicy new feature out of her
mind.  She barely even finishes both of her chili dogs anymore.
 Heartbreaking.

Although I'm starting to think he has his spam filter set to exclude
'textmate 2' and 'tm2' automatically.... ;)

OK I've got a question, is there any way I can temporarily disable or toggle
auto-pairing of quotes (& etc) with a hot key?  Sometimes I just want a
single quote (etc) somewhere and it can get annoying to delete the paired
character each time.

Also, is TmCodeBrowser 1.11 the latest in "Show Classes, Functions, etc in a
Tree Panel" technology we have right now?  I would like something that shows
more information (variables in functions, entire struct definitions), and
can show/hide info without the mouse hovering over it (hate the mouse).  If
not I'll take a crack at patching up TmCodeBrowser into a 'good enough'
solution until TextMate 2 arrives to make us muscular without exercise,
gives our cars an extra 5 mpg (or kpl as it may be) in the city, and stops
Jericho from ruining all my fancy Ikea rugs.

Brandon
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From 100621.1 at masonsmusic.co.uk  Thu Apr 28 08:04:16 2011
From: 100621.1 at masonsmusic.co.uk (Justin Catterall)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:04:16 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <4DB846C8.1050901@gmail.com>
References: 	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>	

	<4DB846C8.1050901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4372BBB1-C806-4FA1-9DAA-C65F8BC19266@masonsmusic.co.uk>

On 27 Apr 2011, at 17:39, Watts Martin wrote:

> Justin Catterall wrote:
> > You know what's an alternative to TM2? TM1. Seriously, I've sat  
> back and
> > read each and every post in this epic thread, read all the  
> alternative
> > suggestions and how they pale in comparison to TM1 (and they do)  
> and the
> > obvious point keeps being missed? Why are you looking for an  
> alternative to
> > something that does what you want in the first place?

I didn't write that. Please check your attribution before posting.

-- 
Justin Catterall                               www.masonsmusic.co.uk
Director                                       T: +44 (0)1424 427562
Masons Music Ltd                               F: +44 (0)1424 434362
                            For full company details see our web site

From tiagofrederico.dias at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 08:14:42 2011
From: tiagofrederico.dias at gmail.com (Tiago Dias)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 09:14:42 +0100
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: 

No, there is not exist any kind of option for unanchor windows, what I use
instead is the split option into 2 areas inside de sublime text. Each of the
splitted areas can hold various files open.

But, has I say, nothing compares to TM.

On 27 April 2011 23:35, Jerry  wrote:

>
> On Apr 27, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Tiago Dias wrote:
>
> > I use TM for a long long time ago for my personal projects, but since I
> work many hours a day in a Windows environment I use a lot this
> editorhttp://www.sublimetext.com/2 that have a version for Mac OS. I think
> that this is a good alternative to TM.
> >
> I looked at Sublime Text 2 yesterday and it looks like an
> everything-in-one-window layout. That's a deal killer for me. Maybe there is
> a way to unanchor the various windows but I didn't see it.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>

-- 

Tiago Dias

tiagofrederico.dias at gmail.com
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From newsgr at tobiasjung.net  Thu Apr 28 08:39:04 2011
From: newsgr at tobiasjung.net (Tobias Jung)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:39:04 +0200
Subject: [TxMt] Re: textmate Digest, Vol 35, Issue 37
In-Reply-To: 
References: 

Message-ID: <20110428083904.1841204014@tobiasjung.net>

Brandon M Fryslie wrote (Wed, 27 Apr 2011 20:35:07 -0700):

> OK I've got a question, is there any way I can temporarily disable or toggle
> auto-pairing of quotes (& etc) with a hot key?  Sometimes I just want a
> single quote (etc) somewhere and it can get annoying to delete the paired
> character each time.

Not to my knowledge, but there's no auto-pairing when the quote is
inserted by a snippet.
So you can use the Bundle Editor to add a new snippet which inserts a
quote character (or whatever) and bind it to a key equivalent as you see fit.
Of course you have to do this for every single character which you don't
want to get auto-paired, eg.
" ' ( [ {
... so this is not a solution but rather a workaround.

Kind regards,
Tobias Jung

From layotl at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 17:20:48 2011
From: layotl at gmail.com (Watts Martin)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:20:48 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <4372BBB1-C806-4FA1-9DAA-C65F8BC19266@masonsmusic.co.uk>
References: 	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>			<4DB846C8.1050901@gmail.com>
	<4372BBB1-C806-4FA1-9DAA-C65F8BC19266@masonsmusic.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4DB9A1F0.6070703@gmail.com>

Justin Catterall said: "I didn't write that."

...you sure didn't! Sorry about that. (I think I must have replied to a message with that quote extract in it, rather than the original.)
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From macagp at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 18:45:06 2011
From: macagp at gmail.com (Merrifield Adam)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:45:06 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <4DB9A1F0.6070703@gmail.com>
References: 	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>			<4DB846C8.1050901@gmail.com>
	<4372BBB1-C806-4FA1-9DAA-C65F8BC19266@masonsmusic.co.uk>
	<4DB9A1F0.6070703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82064F85-125B-4440-9895-FF0C92D2A2EE@gmail.com>

If it matters to anyone, I wrote that.

Adam Merrifield

On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Watts Martin wrote:

> Justin Catterall said: "I didn't write that."
> 
> ...you sure didn't! Sorry about that. (I think I must have replied to a message with that quote extract in it, rather than the original.)
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate

From adimircolen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 21:00:05 2011
From: adimircolen at gmail.com (Adimir)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 18:00:05 -0300
Subject: [TxMt] Column Selections
Message-ID: 

What is the shortcut to select columns (block) of text?
I'm using ? and selecting with the mouse, but I would only use the keyboard.

http://manual.macromates.com/en/working_with_text
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From dru at summitprojects.com  Thu Apr 28 21:45:43 2011
From: dru at summitprojects.com (Dru Kepple)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:45:43 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Column Selections
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>

On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Adimir wrote:

What is the shortcut to select columns (block) of text?
I'm using ? and selecting with the mouse, but I would only use the keyboard.

You can select a linear selection as normal (with the keyboard) and then just tap the option key.  It will turn the linear selection into a columnar selection by using the start and end points of the linear selection as opposing corners of the block.  Tap again to go back.

That is probably my favorite-yet-obscure TextMate feature.

And it's truly painful when I realize (too late, after muscle memory did its thing) that it's not a universal feature that all text editors have.

+dru

From kngspook at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 21:54:30 2011
From: kngspook at gmail.com (Neil)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 14:54:30 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: <82064F85-125B-4440-9895-FF0C92D2A2EE@gmail.com>
References: 
	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>

	<4DB846C8.1050901@gmail.com>
	<4372BBB1-C806-4FA1-9DAA-C65F8BC19266@masonsmusic.co.uk>
	<4DB9A1F0.6070703@gmail.com>
	<82064F85-125B-4440-9895-FF0C92D2A2EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: 

I'm not sure why Allan doesn't want us to see TM2 when it's complete enough
to be dogfooded. After 2-3 OS cycles worth of development by a very capable
developer, I can't imagine that it's in a very raw state...

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Merrifield Adam  wrote:

> If it matters to anyone, I wrote that.
>
> Adam Merrifield
>
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Watts Martin wrote:
>
> > Justin Catterall said: "I didn't write that."
> >
> > ...you sure didn't! Sorry about that. (I think I must have replied to a
> message with that quote extract in it, rather than the original.)
> > _______________________________________________
> > textmate mailing list
> > textmate at lists.macromates.com
> > http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
>
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From adimircolen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 28 22:19:20 2011
From: adimircolen at gmail.com (Adimir Colen)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 19:19:20 -0300
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Column Selections
In-Reply-To: <948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>
References: 
	<948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>
Message-ID: 

Thanks, after trying a few times, began to work.

-- 
Adimir Colen
Sent with Sparrow
On quinta-feira, 28 de abril de 2011 at 18:45, Dru Kepple wrote: 
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Adimir wrote:
> 
> What is the shortcut to select columns (block) of text?
> I'm using ? and selecting with the mouse, but I would only use the keyboard.
> 
> 
> You can select a linear selection as normal (with the keyboard) and then just tap the option key. It will turn the linear selection into a columnar selection by using the start and end points of the linear selection as opposing corners of the block. Tap again to go back.
> 
> That is probably my favorite-yet-obscure TextMate feature.
> 
> And it's truly painful when I realize (too late, after muscle memory did its thing) that it's not a universal feature that all text editors have.
> 
> +dru
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
> 
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From lewy at chena.fastmail.us  Fri Apr 29 01:10:46 2011
From: lewy at chena.fastmail.us (Lewis Overton)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:10:46 -0800
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Column Selections
In-Reply-To: <948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>
References: 
	<948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>
Message-ID: 

Cool. I didn't know that. I use column select a lot, but had used the mouse
+ drag. Thanks!

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Dru Kepple  wrote:

> On Apr 28, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Adimir wrote:
>
> What is the shortcut to select columns (block) of text?
> I'm using ? and selecting with the mouse, but I would only use the
> keyboard.
>
>
> You can select a linear selection as normal (with the keyboard) and then
> just tap the option key.  It will turn the linear selection into a columnar
> selection by using the start and end points of the linear selection as
> opposing corners of the block.  Tap again to go back.
>
> That is probably my favorite-yet-obscure TextMate feature.
>
> And it's truly painful when I realize (too late, after muscle memory did
> its thing) that it's not a universal feature that all text editors have.
>
> +dru
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> textmate mailing list
> textmate at lists.macromates.com
> http://lists.macromates.com/listinfo/textmate
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From mailinglist0 at skurfer.com  Fri Apr 29 03:34:03 2011
From: mailinglist0 at skurfer.com (Rob McBroom)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 23:34:03 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Honest assessment of TM2's state please!
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<4DB76350.7010008@gmail.com>

	<4DB846C8.1050901@gmail.com>
	<4372BBB1-C806-4FA1-9DAA-C65F8BC19266@masonsmusic.co.uk>
	<4DB9A1F0.6070703@gmail.com>
	<82064F85-125B-4440-9895-FF0C92D2A2EE@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <817C39A5-C05F-49F0-9756-13DD70F7979E@skurfer.com>

On Apr 28, 2011, at 5:54 PM, Neil wrote:

> I'm not sure why Allan doesn't want us to see TM2 when it's complete enough to be dogfooded. After 2-3 OS cycles worth of development by a very capable developer, I can't imagine that it's in a very raw state...

His comments make it sound like a lot of the features are there, but performance isn?t good enough yet. My theory is that he?s just going to sit on it until hardware gets fast enough to make it look good. :)

-- 
Rob McBroom

From profharrison at gmail.com  Fri Apr 29 04:02:56 2011
From: profharrison at gmail.com (Jenny Harrison)
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:02:56 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Column Selections
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>

Message-ID: <66B5C808-6D42-419F-9150-D18DF5A90681@gmail.com>

> 
> You can select a linear selection as normal (with the keyboard) and then just tap the option key.  It will turn the linear selection into a columnar selection by using the start and end points of the linear selection as opposing corners of the block.  Tap again to go back.
> 
> That is probably my favorite-yet-obscure TextMate feature.
> 
> And it's truly painful when I realize (too late, after muscle memory did its thing) that it's not a universal feature that all text editors have.
> 
> +dru

This is a very nice tip, thanks!

-Jenny
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From sking at arbor.net  Fri Apr 29 13:56:48 2011
From: sking at arbor.net (Steve King)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 09:56:48 -0400
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Column Selections
In-Reply-To: <948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>
References: 
	<948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>
Message-ID: <4DBAC3A0.9070200@arbor.net>

On 2011-04-28 17:45, Dru Kepple wrote:
> You can select a linear selection as normal (with the keyboard) and then just tap the option key.  It will turn the linear selection into a columnar selection by using the start and end points of the linear selection as opposing corners of the block.  Tap again to go back.

Nice, but it doesn't always work for me.  It *usually* works, but 
sometimes I have to pound on the option key a few times to get it to 
take. This happens both with my laptop's built-in keyboard and the 
external keyboard, so I don't think it's just a bad key.

One of the first things I did with TM was to make a set of macros: 
Select Block bound to ^B (moveRightAndModifySelection, 
toggleColumnSelection), Select Line bound to ^L (selectHardLine), and 
Select Nothing bound to ESC (moveRightAndModifySelection, moveLeft). I 
don't remember for sure, but I might have had to edit the *.tmMacro 
files by hand to get exactly the behavior I wanted.

-- 
Steve King
Sr. Software Engineer
Arbor Networks
+1 734 821 1461
www.arbornetworks.com 

From roverrat at gmx.de  Fri Apr 29 15:38:40 2011
From: roverrat at gmx.de (Alexandra)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:38:40 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Printing vs Viewing Font
References: <678023.15826.qm@web37103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<5800124C-38F4-430B-9FF8-BEAC63293563@eva.mpg.de>
Message-ID: 

Brilliant Hans, this was just what I was looking for. Thanks!

From dru at summitprojects.com  Fri Apr 29 20:14:03 2011
From: dru at summitprojects.com (Dru Kepple)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:14:03 -0700
Subject: [TxMt] Re: Column Selections
In-Reply-To: <4DBAC3A0.9070200@arbor.net>
References: 
	<948FECE9-3226-4CFA-AF59-1F640616E66B@summitprojects.com>
	<4DBAC3A0.9070200@arbor.net>
Message-ID: <3C0E054A-195C-490F-B178-24DFEB41CCB9@summitprojects.com>

On Apr 29, 2011, at 6:56 AM, Steve King wrote:
> Nice, but it doesn't always work for me.  It *usually* works, but 
> sometimes I have to pound on the option key a few times to get it to 
> take. This happens both with my laptop's built-in keyboard and the 
> external keyboard, so I don't think it's just a bad key.

Weird...I've not had a problem with it ever not working.  But it doesn't sound you're alone.  Maybe this can be fixed in TextMate 2!!!!!

(Too soon?)

+dru